UPDATE 3/7/17 WITH VIDEO !!!!!!!!!!! Niagara gears and drive shaft

would like to see it as well

This is turning into the never ending story. Got the engine back, but the wrong gears were installed. Shipped it back, should have it back in about ten days.

Hello everyone,

   My customer decided to go with the gears from Lima, it turns out the first time i installed the Lima gears and they failed it was do to many other issues the engine had. I found so many other issues from someone who did work on this engine in the past, here's the list. First the original speed sensor must have been replaced and when the flywheel was reinstalled it was done wrong, also the original motor was having issues which i tried to fix but didn't work, so i had to install a new motor. Second there was some side rod linkage that was broken and very loose, which i had to completely redo/replace . lastly this engine speed control was so bad i ripped it all out and installed a cruise M from Electric RR, which made an amazing difference. One other thing i forgot to mention is, the worm gear in the gearbox had a bit to much play in it. So i needed to shim it with the proper shims/spacers which fellow forum member Pete (NORTON) supplied for me. Thanks Pete!!!!

It pulled 14 pretty heavy freight cars with ease, IMO it could pull many many more.

Thanks, Alex

Awesome work Alex.

Glad that worked out, that is a lot of extra parts leftover.  G

GGG posted:

Glad that worked out, that is a lot of extra parts leftover.  G

Hi George and Joe thanks !!

The repair person who did work to this engine in the past, really did some nice damage to it. I  practically had the rebuild the entire engine. lol !! 

Thanks, Alex 

Great job, great looking engine.  May I just suggest one thing.  Add Gunrunner's superchuffer board and that Niagara would be perfect.

Alex, I tip my hat not only to your skills but your persistence. Most would have tossed this one in the dumpster long ago.

Pete

Alex is a good Super-Chuffer customer, I'm surprised this one doesn't have one.

superwarp1 posted:

Great job, great looking engine.  May I just suggest one thing.  Add Gunrunner's superchuffer board and that Niagara would be perfect.

Hi Gary, Thanks.  I couldn't agree more, customer wasn't interested.

Thanks, Alex

Norton posted:

Alex, I tip my hat not only to your skills but your persistence. Most would have tossed this one in the dumpster long ago.

Pete

  Pete Thanks,  it was a long haul and a lot of work, I don't know how i hung in there . lol.

Thanks, Alex

Alex, customer education is part of the upgrade!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Alex is a good Super-Chuffer customer, I'm surprised this one doesn't have one.

Yes I'm a big super chuffer fan, like me this customer went through a lot and it was a long haul. I think he was happy to get the engine back.

John, I'll be calling you soon for a few super chuffers, i have three ERR upgrades that will need them.

Thanks, Alex

Not to worry, they're in stock.

Nicely Done Alex

Hi all,

Looks like patience is something nobody likes (LOL). Just an update on my original post (like 4-5 months ago) the new brass gears with steel dowel axles should be arriving next week and allow us to test them in our cadaver loco (thanks Kevin!). I am confident the new gears will resolve the issues found with the plastic gears. Once the samples are verified it will take about 4 weeks to get production pieces in house. 

I'll respond back with the results once we have them from our test. In the meantime, no sense in waiting, or as they say in racing; keep diggin'! 

Thanks,
Mike

Alex, nice job! I wish  could be as talented as you when I grow up.

At 62 it is not likely to happen!

Always enjoy your posts

Fred

Thanks Mike,

I appreciate Lionel's efforts in helping their customers resolve this problem with what I consider to be the nicest engine in the CCII series .

Richard

Mike,

Not a problem, glad to assist. I have the second one pulled apart - actually Alex does and we can't wait to get our hands on the new gears. After speaking with Alex we are going to completely upgrade the engine, super chuffer, the works. Then a full blown set of tests at Alex's place them at the NJ HiRailers.

Thanks for the monumental effort to help get these back on the rails.

Alex, were looking good for September 

Just got word, the Niagara is back, with hopefully the NWSL gears installed. I will post a video this weekend when l get home.

Duke - looking forward to it. Mine two are still laid up. 

Spoke to Lionel and they are making progress on the the replacement gears mentioned in the post on 6/3

After speaking with Dave at NWSL, brass gears will turn into powdered brass, plus will be very noisy while they last. I'll find out this weekend just how good the NWSL gears are at pulling a load.

Thank you Duke

Sorry guys, the past two weekends were booked solid. Maybe this weekend (one and a half days) l'll find the time to pull test these new gears. Roy said they pulled fine when he tested them.

UPDATE (Finally, right?)

Okay, after almost a year of going back and forth with failed attempts and successes we have finally put an end to this whole Niagara Gearbox debacle! We have been brutally testing (read into this abusing) two phosphor bronze gears we received a couple months back. To our elation these gears are EXTREMELY durable and we have been unable to wreck them (much to Kevin's delight I am sure!). These gears have been ordered today and will be air shipped to Lionel so they arrive the early part of November 2016. I have a couple pics of the replacement gears shown below. The official Lionel part number for the two gears is 6208069900. The individual gears have the following part numbers;

6208069815 Small Gear w/ steel dowel shaft
6208069825 Large gear w/ steel dowel shaft
6208069900 Niagara gearbox Plastic gear replacement kit (1 large, 1 small)

As I mentioned above these will be in stock in early November 2016 and will sell for $6.50 a set. $3.25 each (if you wish to purchase the small gears separately). 

My apologies for this taking all year to rectify, but running the Lionel business took precedence over correcting a sin from the past. Nevertheless, problem solved and hopefully put this issue to bed forever!

These parts can be ordered after they arrive in early November, for the sake of all of our sanity, lets say Nov 15, 2016! (the service team will hopefully not come after me with torches and pitchforks with that date!). To order your gears, call Lionel service at 586-949-4100 ext 2 or visit our online parts site here: Century Club II Niagara Replacement Metal Gears

Thank you,

Mike

Mike,

Good news at last. Big thanks to you and the rest at Lionel for putting in all the effort to alleviate a 15 year old problem. I know many friends in the hobby who will eagerly take part in fixing their Niagara to proper working condition.

Mike,

Hats off to you and the Lionel team. We all, especially me, appreciate the effort and understand that this was not a high priority and running the current business is. We all want those new products. I cannot wait to get this engine back on the rails. It is one of the nicer CC offerings.

Abuse, what's a little abuse .

Thanks again to the dedicated Lionel staff that worked on this project.

Will be ordering 4 complete sets. Have two of these engines and a friends that need them as well.

Book the order -

Kevin

Nice going Mike, that's a classy thing for Lionel to do at this stage of the game.

Mike, great work and i knew you would take care of this. The gears look great, soon i can get the three Niagara's i have here complete.

Thanks very much, Alex

Great news Mike! I will be ordering a couple of sets as well. Anyone interested in about 3 pairs of delrin gears?

Pete

Way to go Mike! You have brought back some faith in train buying humanity!

Now could you help a guy like me out and offer F3 motor replacements from the 2003- 2005 release with the 0.325 worm drive, and odyssey sensor board on them? They have been out of stock for 9 years!

Still havent had time to set up the Niagara and Vanderbilt cars. My face is red, and I'll go stand in the corner if that helps. But I am a truck driver and only get a thirty four hour weekend. That doesnt leave much time. I will post a video ASAP. I did notice that Lionel did make the gears out of bronze, instead of brass as Mike had stated, Only time will tell if my "lifetime" gears from NWSL last longer, if I live that long. The point is the solution is here. Either buy the Lifetime gears from NWSL or the noisy bronze gears from Lionel. At least now we can run one of the best looking engines Lionel ever produced.

Duke,  Sounds familiar......       Yes, I have a set of the NWSL gears... not installed, yet.  However, I, too, will be ordering a set of the Lionel gears Mike spoke of,,,, just in case!   LOL!!!!   Besides, who knows, if I have an opportunity to acquire a good "used" Niagara in need of new gears ( I already have two extras sets of U joints), to have a second good looking Niagara will not be a bad thing.

Jesse      TCA  12-68275

Thanks Mike, I will be ordering a set or two.  One question do the gears have a slight bevel or taper to them ?  The second picture makes them look that way or maybe just the angle?

Doug

The original ones, and the ones I bought at North Lima Train Works had a slight angle. There have been statements earlier that they were straight cut, but mine were definitely angled...which makes sense considering what they are driven by and drive.

Way to go MIKE and LIONEL!!!!

cjack posted:

The original ones, and the ones I bought at North Lima Train Works had a slight angle. There have been statements earlier that they were straight cut, but mine were definitely angled...which makes sense considering what they are driven by and drive.

Chuck, you are right. The angle is pretty subtle but when I compare a set from North Lima to my homemade set which used spur gears you can defintely see a difference. I haven't taken my gearbox apart yet since I was hoping Mike would come theough, which he has but I assume the axle gear is also angled to match the intermediate gear. 

Here are some pics to show the difference between a spur gear (mine) and a worm gear (North Lima). North Lima (Lionel) top and left in the pics.

Thanks to you and Doug for pointing that out.

Pete

Let's see...$12.50 each for the NWSL plastic "may fit" gears or $6.50 per set OEM bronze gears...Now that's a no brainer. Kudos to Lionel!!

Hmmm.

This makes me consider buying one of these old niagaras and sending it to Alex for the gearbox and super chuffer upgrades.

 Even after parts and labor,It would probably still be $1000 less than a future legacy version