Normal operation or speed limit or ?

Nothing I can see about that locomotive that would make it be a slowpoke, time to start basic troubleshooting.  I'd pop the shell and see if there is any drag on either of the drive motors.  Make sure ALL the motor mounting screws are secure, and all connections and connectors are tight.

To help you solve the problem we need more information...

1. Make a small mark or dot on one of the driving wheels with a soft pencil or sharpie marker.

2. Take the shell off of your loco and lay the chassis on its side.

3. Make a small mark on the flywheel

4. Turn the flywheel by hand (this will NOT hurt the loco.)  

5. Count how many turns of the flywheel it takes for one full revolution of the driving wheels.

For years Lionels were anywhere from 8:1 to 10:1 and ran so fast they would fly off the table!  My guess is that your loco is one of the ones with a double-threaded worm that runs about 12.5:1

It should still easily reach 60-70 scale mph, which is fast enough for most layouts.  Try this, post your results, and we'll go from there.  -Ted

Do what Ted says for each flywheel, there are two motors.

I should also have mentioned: when you're turning the flywheel(s), make note if there are any "binds," in other words does the flywheel turn uniformly freely, or are there places where it tends to get stuck.  It should be smooth.  Let us know.

Thanks Ted and John,

I checked the ratio and found both motors are 12.5:1 , and each turned very smooth forward and reverse with almost no resistance at all and no bad spots. I also ran it without the shell to make sure there was no flywheel to shell interference.

I  noticed the motors do get warmer than I would expect, but I am not sure if this is normal or not.

Running with no load, the motors should not get warm at all.  If they're getting noticeably warm, I'd be concerned.  If both are getting warm, that would lead me to look at the motor drive, having two bad motors would be rare.

Oh yeah, the shell itself feels warm after a few laps.

Do you mean the motor itself may be suspect or the gearing?

John here's what happened with these...

In an attempt to get better slow-speed performance, Lionel changed the worm gear on the motor shaft from a triple threaded "high-angle" worm, to a double threaded worm with a more conservative pitch.  To save money they did not also change the worm wheel in the truck block.

The die-cast metal motor mount which keys the motor into the truck block was not spec'd or cast 100% correctly so the mesh is off.  This causes friction and high current draw.  Because this was considered a low-cost locomotive, I don't believe that a replacement motor mount was ever offered*  But I heard that some repair centers had success adjusting the gear mesh by inserting a cardboard(!) shim to set the motor at a slight angle.

*Because Lionel's products tend to evolve over time, you might be able to figure out what the "next generation" of this loco was.  Take a look at the LionChief FT from the current catalogue.  (Lionel's website has exploded parts diagrams for most of their locos.)  If you purchase motor mounts for a newer model of the same loco, they might have the changed geometry necessary for a correct gear mesh.  Sometimes you can tell because the loco's product number is the middle digits of the part number.

Rockyshores, you have a few choices.

1. You can keep running it the way it is.  How slow is it?  (How many feet does the loco travel in one minute at full throttle?)

2. If you're handy you can try to shim the motors yourself and see if that improves performance.  I would use metal shim stock, not cardboard which will compress over time.  It shouldn't take much, maybe less than 0.005"

3. Since your profile says you live in NJ there should be a few Lionel authorized service centers within driving distance.  You can take the loco to one of these (along with a print-out of this thread) and see if they are familiar with the problem.  They should be able to correct it for you.  If you're not handy this is the solution I recommend.

4. You can send it back to Lionel for an out-of-warranty repair.

This loco was made at point in Lionel's history where in the face of stiff competition they were trying hard to improve performance, but didn't have the budget, or were unwilling to commit to all-new tooling.  Once corrected it definitely has smoother slow-speed performance than earlier models.  You just have to take some extra steps to unlock its potential.  -Ted

Interesting, I had to shim the motor mounts in an MTH locomotive last year to get smooth performance, but I hadn't heard about this one.  Shimming them should be pretty easy to see if that helps.

Well well, so maybe it isn't my imagination! 

1. I will clock the feet per minute and report back, this info will also help as a before and after test.

2. I am very willing and able to try the shim idea and would actually prefer to do it myself. ("I just love taking it apart!")

Just so I understand clearly, the purpose of the shim that will set the motor at a slight angle is to move the worm gear   AWAY    from the worm wheel in the truck block providing more clearance, less friction, and  less heat.

3. Yes, northwest NJ

4. Do you know what Lionel does for this repair?

    change worm wheel in the truck block,

    shim the motor or

    swap the motor mounts

It really does seem like it has more potential, but something is holding it back.

Thanks again,

Andy