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I don't want to get anybody's hopes up, but a little birdy told me that someone is in the process of starting an attempt at building a genuine, full size, NYC Hudson. I have checked online and I have found complete engineering drawings regularly available to the common public, so this is a legitimate possibility. Thoughts? Would anyone be interested in supporting such an endeavor? Like many people, I wish the NYC had the brains to save one of those behemoths, but unfortunately, they didn't. But the legacy managed to live on, making the Hudson a synonymous icon among railfans. I model the NYC, so this naturally excites me. What about you? I can give out limited information only because I don't know a lot, but I'll do my best to answer any questions.

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Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

I can give out limited information only because I don't know a lot, but I'll do my best to answer any questions.

1) How will sure an enormously expensive project be funded?

 

2) Where and who will produce the huge pattern for the one piece cast frame, with integral cast cylinders?

 

3) Where, or who, will actually produce that massive one piece casting?

Originally Posted by rattler21:

There is a NYC steam engine in pretty sorry shape at Elkhart.  I spoke with an engineer about four years ago and he said it would take at least 1.5 million to get steam up.

John

Just for ha has.  Lets say there's one surviving NYC Hudson and the Mohawk in Elkhart Which would be the better engine for mainline excursions?  I bet most of the experts here would say the Mohawk.

Originally Posted by superwarp1:
Originally Posted by rattler21:

There is a NYC steam engine in pretty sorry shape at Elkhart.  I spoke with an engineer about four years ago and he said it would take at least 1.5 million to get steam up.

John

Just for ha has.  Lets say there's one surviving NYC Hudson and the Mohawk in Elkhart Which would be the better engine for mainline excursions?  I bet most of the experts here would say the Mohawk.

ABSOLUTELY! Since the Mohawk in Elkart, A) already exists, and B) since it is an L4 would be a FAR BETTER promotional/excursion/special passenger locomotive. Not to mention, it would only take about 2 to 2 1/2 million dollars to completely overhaul it.

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

I have to remind all of you, this locomotive is only a part of the plan for the hudson project.

So, are you talking about "that Hudson project" out of Minneapolis, MN, that has already purchased the big Santa Fe Hudson that has been on display out in Topeka, Kansas? The same "group" that is planning on using some sort of "hockey pucks" for low emissions fuel??

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

There are several contracting firms who will build steam locomotives as one price, and with the Hudson being such an iconic locomotive, funding would be a little easier than on a standard restoration project. I believe they will try to closely follow the course of the Tornado Project in the UK.

Remember now, that the UK steam locomotives are ALL fabricated frames, and the new boiler that was also constructed in Germany had quite a bit of "issues", after only a few years of excursion service. Eventually, the Tornado's boiler had to be completely removed and shipped BACK to Germany for extensive repairs.

 

None of the UK steam locomotives, nor the European steam locomotives for that matter, should be compared to the axle loading, size, and horsepower of the massive U.S. steam locomotives, such as a J3a Super Hudson. 

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

Milwaukee Road 261 was purchased and restored by the Friends of the 261 organization, and it successfully ran it's first excursion in May.

That is a VERY good example of a tried and proven locomotive operated by an experienced and trustworthy crew. The NKP 765, SP 4449, and AT&SF also fall into that same category.

 

However, three of those four locomotives MUST operate their public excursions under the umbrella of Amtrak insurance, with contractual approval of the host railroad (CP, and BNSF). With the freight traffic continuing to increase throughout the U.S. rail system, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to obtain approvals from the likes of CP, BNSF, etc., let alone contract approvals with Amtrak for your "fully Amtrak inspected/approved" steam locomotive.

The reason for the slow in fundraising is probably the fact that the overhaul and inspection are over. If you don't NEED money, you won't get a lot. The locomotive is in full swing, and is operating perfectly, and if the reputation of the 261 and it's crew continues, they won't need that money for another 15 years.

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

The reason for the slow in fundraising is probably the fact that the overhaul and inspection are over. If you don't NEED money, you won't get a lot. The locomotive is in full swing, and is operating perfectly, and if the reputation of the 261 and it's crew continues, they won't need that money for another 15 years.


I was talking about the 611...

 

Plus, the 261 was in the shop for 2-3 year(?) being rebuilt. 

 

Please bear in mind it took 14 years to build the Tornado.  It took 10 years to build the Leviathan from scratch. 

 

Building a J3 would very likely take a lot longer.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by rattler21:

US railroads ability to handle excursion trains should increase when the Panama Canal is expanded.  That  should reduce the number of trains needed to provide Land Bridge service.

John

But, I have heard tolls will increase once the new locks open. (The PC is a "toll road".)  Also there are only one set of new locks for the super ships, hence they will be run directionally, unlike the two set system of the original locks.  There are very few changes in the PC inside of the lock system.  My guess is the congestion on the PC will remain the same, or even get worse.

And even if traffic is diverted to the PC, stacks coming from from Gulf ans Atlantic ports will increase.  And add the oil trains.....

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

The reason for the slow in fundraising is probably the fact that the overhaul and inspection are over. If you don't NEED money, you won't get a lot. The locomotive is in full swing, and is operating perfectly, and if the reputation of the 261 and it's crew continues, they won't need that money for another 15 years.

Oh, so they just wait for 14 years before they start "fund raising" again?

 

THAT really isn't how it works, at least with 4449, 3751, 765, etc..

Originally Posted by Modelrailroader:

I think we should start a conspiracy rumor that there is one old NYC Hudson secretly hidden away in a warehouse building in the bronx that was spared from the scrappers torch.  

 

Could be there or in the Indiana barn as suggested by Rusty. I think I'll ask Dale from the Wheels Through Time Museum ('What's in the Barn?' TV show) here in Maggie Valley to be on the lookout for it. He turns up some really unusual stuff in their quests....

 

As for funding,  do you think the president would be willing to donate some of their monthly 'vacation budget' to help?  A couple of million this month and a couple in December should about cover the restoration.

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:
Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

The reason for the slow in fundraising is probably the fact that the overhaul and inspection are over. If you don't NEED money, you won't get a lot. The locomotive is in full swing, and is operating perfectly, and if the reputation of the 261 and it's crew continues, they won't need that money for another 15 years.


I was talking about the 611...

 

Plus, the 261 was in the shop for 2-3 year(?) being rebuilt. 

 

Rusty

Actually, the rebuild took 4 years.

And a steam engine can't go 15 years between rebuilds.

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