Passenger cars on UP City of SF/LA, length of

I'll offer some answers, but this topic really belongs in the "Hi-Rail, 027 and Traditional 3-Rail Trains" sub-forum. Maybe a moderator can move it for you.

Way back when those cars were made, "high-end" still meant the same as it did in the 1950's--aluminum-bodied passenger cars 15 inches long. The length discrepancy you've noted is due to the inclusion of the couplers in that measurement.

These cars are not anywhere near scale length--they were made to negotiate the predominant curve trackage of the time--mostly 31-inch diameter. The cars would have to be 21 inches long to be proper scale length, but at the time, few had the kind of wide-radius curves needed to run those cars (most still don't). When scale-length models became popular, these 15" cars were demoted to the RailKing line, and then replaced with ABS plastic versions, most likely to be able to meet the price points of the reduced-cost line.

Most streamlined passenger cars were 85 feet in length, and and as proper scale length models, would measure 21.5" long, not including couplers. Even MTH's current Premier cars do not meet that criteria--they were shortened somewhat so that more people could run them on the intermediate curve diameters that became available between 031 (15" radius) and 072 (36" radius) in the meantime (home layouts having the curves necessary to host 21.5" cars are still very much in the minority).

To the best of my knowledge, no separate-sale interiors have been offered for these cars. A number of proposals have been floated by individuals to make interiors for empty-shell passenger cars like these, but none have yet to bear results. Same for diaphragms--they exist mostly as spare parts kept on hand by some of the companies offering them, but not offered for sale as upgrades for older cars even though it may be possible to buy small quantities of them via parts departments or resellers. The only folks who have equipped their diaphragm-less cars so far have made their own, in a fashion that naturally differs from the molded-rubber ones included on current passenger cars.

The "appropriate" locomotives for these cars would be any of the "covered wagon" diesels--F3's, Alco PA's or EMD E-series.

---PCJ

Thank you very much. That was an extremely clear, concise and informative explanation.

Should I request a moderator to move it?  or do folks sometimes copy and paste their questions as a "new topic" on the appropriate forum?

 Sometimes one starts a topic being unaware of the specific sub-forum they're posting from. In such a case, there's no harm in informing a moderator to move the topic, although I don't recall seeing topics marked as "moved" (it may be that this particular forum software doesn't mark such posts when they're re-located).

I've also seen people re-do their post in the appropriate forum, adding a note that it had been posted in the wrong place before, and editing the original to indicate that it has been reposted to a more appropriate forum in case others run across it using the "Recent posts" column, which does not indicate which forum it was posted on. 

---PCJ

Well, it looks like someone moved this thread (my initial post + your reply) to the High Rail, O27, etc. forum.  Great, we'll see if anyone else in this broader forum has any experience trying to upgrade these "former Premier, really Railking passenger cars" and/or sources for seat, people, etc. to populate the interior.

Doesn't bother me which forum this is in.  It is a good question.

Lightweight passenger cars came in various lengths.  I have plenty of UP documentation around here, but maybe it would help to let you know that Daylight cars originally were 77' long.  That is 19 1/4" in O Scale.  Later production went to 79', which is of course just a half- inch longer.

This gives you a good excuse to go to 18" cars - shortened just a tad for operation on tight 3- rail curves, yet long enough to very closely simulate the real thing.

I run 74" radius curves, yet I have a train of 19 1/4" cars - they look great behind a Northern or a PA.  I try not to go over 20" on passenger car lengths, but do have a lot of converted K-Line cars that are a full 21" long.  I believe in a teeny bit of artistic license.  Often it makes things look better.  The shorter cars can be coupled closer together, greatly enhancing the realism I want.

My "Streamliners" book shows UP lightweights all over the map.  1937 coaches were typically 78' long, or 19 1/2" in O Scale.  Very few made it all the way to 85' over buffers, but a lot made it to 84 1/2' over coupler pulling faces.

Most articulated coaches are in the 65' range, but that is not a useful length for 3- rail curves because it requires a huge gap between the cars over the articulating joint.

Precision scale has diaphragms for sale as a separate item.  Web site show pix of different types.

mikeg

Very helpful replies, thanks.  Certainly puts mine toward the toy end of the scale.

Has anyone ever seen the components of the "innards" of a passenger car for sale (people, seats, table seats) in a hobby shop or on the internet?

precision scale and keil line have all you need to complete your interiors except walls and some fixtures.