Pennsylvania K-4 Locomotive

K-line also offered 3 models of them and they are 1/48 scale.  

DGAUSS,  Do they run on 031?

I have noticed that some Williams are brass?   Are they scale?  They also have a "Crown" edition?   Is the Railking semi-scale?  Lionel also has some offerings. 

Williams brass from Samhongsa are full scale. They can run on 031 but it's tight. FWIW, the schale should run on 036. the semi scales are fine with 031 and 027. Stick with the Railking or the Lionel traditional k4  #6-28023[ NO odessy/or Legacy] or #6-38089

http://www.grahamstrains.com/s...ngine-with-TMCC.html

The Railking K4s is not scale.  Like all other Railking locos, it will do 31" diameter.

I like the Railking K4s. I have the PS1 and PS2 versions, they look good and run great. The Ps1 has sounds but is basically a conventional locomotive. Ps2 command controlled, obviously, got the Lionel 6-28023, that looks good as well, it has tmcc but all these can run conventionally and will negotiate 031 even 027 curves. Sounds are a bonus on these beauty's .

 If command control isn't an issue, I would recommend the Railking 30-1138-1 K4. They can be had fairly cheap, I've had mine since new and still runs like a champ!

I bought a Lionel K4 conventional in 2014 which uses the old K-Line tooling thinking it would operate on O31 curves just like the K-Line scale J1e NYC Hudson does. But found it needs at least O36 or it derails. It is scale size.

I cannot think of one K-line scale locomotive that required larger than O31 curves.

Mike

I have this K-Line PRR 3019.  It is semi Scale, conventional control, handles 0-31, runs well and looks good.  It has sound that is a little quirky.  I paid $75 for it.

I've got an older Williams Crown edition K-4S .Heavy loco but light on detail, a great runner but larger curves required.PS smoke unit not that great. James

MTH has a K4 in their Railking line. They have both a railking and imperial version (imperial is just the railking tooling with extra detail) probably find one for about $200-300 depending where you look. I have one and it's one of my favorites. Mine has protosound 2 and smokes like a chimney. 

Find a MTH Rail King semi scale PRR K4. A first edition loco will have whistle and bell, nice smoke and runs like a watch. I'll check my stash as I may have one for sale. Let me know if interested. thx

K4s by MTH Rail King are plentiful, great runners and relatively inexpensive. This one takes 031 curves and switches in stride. It has PS2, but it will run in convention mode with smoke and sounds.

Jeff Noll posted:

.  I am currently lusting after a Pennsylvania K-4 locomotive and am overwhelmed by the variety available.  First it needs to operate on 031 track as it seems most do.  The question of scale vs. semi-scale is usually not addressed in descriptions.  I would place my interests  towards semi-scale.  Prices are all over.  As I just want one K-4 my priorities are that it needs to be a great reliable runner, have smoke, and a whistle.  I am not interested it "rail sounds" or remote operation so an older model would be just fine.  Some are quite striking with pinstriped tenders.  The level of detail varies and is usually most evident on the pilot.  

I have noticed that some Williams are brass?   Are they scale?  They also have a "Crown" edition?   Is the Railking semi-scale?  Lionel also has some offerings.  There must be a dozen offered on ebay currently. 

Your insights will be greatly appreciated.

You may want to think about the Kline scale K-4 from around 2004.  Beautiful engine with TMCC and cruise control that runs on O-31 curves.. ON Ebay today they average around $350.00 in L/N condition

Joe

I had the MTH RailKing K4, but sold it after I bought the MTH Premier K4. Both in original Protosounds.

For a comparison on K4s, see this posting:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...otive-guide-pacifics

For your use, I would concur that the Railking versions may be your best bet based on value, operating ease on tighter curves and still have scale proportions, just not 1:48 scale. 

I am a big fan of the K4 and have three in O.  A Williams brass 3 rail pre-war version and two Sunset brass post-war versions in 2 rail.  My favorite steam locomotive.

Add to the fray the numerous semi scale versions of the K4 Torpedo and the decision becomes daunting. 

Bruce

Thank you all for your inputs. 

I purchased a Railking 30-1138-1 today at Milepost 38 Toy Trains in Westminster, CA..  It is in just like new condition and was very reasonably priced ($150 + sales tax with no shipping for a change!) and came with instruction booklet/extra tires/lube/box.  I was absolutely impressed the minute I saw it.  The fit and finish is superb and its dark green finish also finishes its presentation. 

It runs great (makes it around my 031 curves) but I am going to need to turn the engine volume down (there is a section in the 35 page Operating Instructions booklet that address this specifically).  It smokes unbelievably, in fact, so much that I may have to turn it off.   The only thing of minor concern is a slight smell of rubber.   The drivers do not slip so I doubt it is the traction tires.  I suspect it is something associated the smoke unit being new.

Now I need to get a wooden sided Pennsylvania caboose and a set of passenger cars!!!  Where does this end?

If the loco has protosounds (proto one) there should be a volume control under the tender. It takes a slotted screwdriver. That controls the volume of all the sounds.

You can also control/reduce the volume of the chuff while keeping the whistle loud. The instruction book tells how. I think it is reset 15, if memory serves.

Excellent choice and imo a great value.  Those Railking K4's are fun to run and that's what it's all about!

Where does it end?...................It doesn't. 

Well I am back after only two weeks!  My RK K-4 is running like a watch and the smoke it produces will literally drive me out of my study!  I have been banned from using MEGA-STEAM Coal-Fired Steamer smoke fluid by my wife. 

However, I can not get this notion of a scale model K-4 out of my mind.   Re-reading this thread some have said that although a particular model may be advertised to go around O31 they need/should have larger curves?  I am thinking of the William's Crown brass K-4 (two are currently on ebay  at under $200) and the MTH scale K-4 which also says O31 (Seems like they had a later scale K-4 that needed larger curves?).    I suppose the real driving force is the fact that most of the neat 1920s/30s Billboard reefers are scale and, as well,  have much more detail (added details versus cast-on).

Although I am old enough to be retired I need someone to talk some sense into me before I go down a dirt road with more scale models.  Thanks in advance.

Not a Pennsy K-4 fan per se, but as to the SCALE size equipment, once you buy one, it will be all over, you WILL have to accept larger than 031 curves being in your future, I KNOW this from Experience. I was Very Happy with my Lionmaster semi-scale locomotives well into my O-3Rail foray, THEN Lionel released the Scale Union Pacific FEF-3's, which were a MUST HAVE for ME.

 Lionel couldn't make up their mind wether the FEF-3 was an 072, or an 054 locomotive, the box said 054, the catalog said 072. Turns out, IT DEPENDS, on which track you are using, Unfortunately on MTH Realtrax 054, the tender will derail the last rigid axle about 1-2" into the curve, but another forum member was able to run on 054 TUBULAR just fine.

 After I accepted 072 in my future, I found a looooong Lusted after Lionel Scale AC-9, probably the Most Handsome Articulated ever built. Of course The TWO FEF-3's and AC-9 were eventually joined in the engine facility by an H-7 2-8-8-2, a Big Boy and an SP GS-4, all scale of course, plus some Scale 2-8-0's, but those don't need 072 curves.

 You are treading on DANGEROUS ground, the scale virus can be incurable, but very addicting.

Doug

Jeff Noll posted:

Well I am back after only two weeks!  My RK K-4 is running like a watch and the smoke it produces will literally drive me out of my study!  I have been banned from using MEGA-STEAM Coal-Fired Steamer smoke fluid by my wife. 

However, I can not get this notion of a scale model K-4 out of my mind.   Re-reading this thread some have said that although a particular model may be advertised to go around O31 they need/should have larger curves?  I am thinking of the William's Crown brass K-4 (two are currently on ebay  at under $200) and the MTH scale K-4 which also says O31 (Seems like they had a later scale K-4 that needed larger curves?).    I suppose the real driving force is the fact that most of the neat 1920s/30s Billboard reefers are scale and, as well,  have much more detail (added details versus cast-on).

Although I am old enough to be retired I need someone to talk some sense into me before I go down a dirt road with more scale models.  Thanks in advance.

Jeff:

Good buy and glad to hear its running well.  But it has the initial protosounds (aka proto 1) which can be very problematic so I would highly recommend buying a BCR to replace the battery which will help to keep it running well.  I have the Railking streamlined K-4 version which came out about the same time and initially had many problems with it.  But since installing a BCR it runs great.  No more problems with low battery voltage and scrambling of the chip.

Bill 

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a "BCR"?

BCR, is a Battery Component Replacement, is my understanding of the acronym, it is basically a capacitor to replace the battery in locomotives that need one, most often used in MTH locomotives. Lionel Locomotives typically just use the battery to maintain sounds during conventional running direction changes, where the power is interrupted, and not actually NEEDED to operate the locomotive.

Doug

I'll play the role of temptation here and suggest you go scale.  You'll love it if you have the space.  If you can get 072 curves you can run 99% of what is made in 3 Rail O and the other 1% just needs perfect 072 curves to run too.

Of course, if you don't have the space, ignore everything I've said.  I love my scale K4s.

The original MTH Premiere 20-3019-1 scale K4 with Proto1 made 1996 was cataloged to run on 031 curves. They can be had for a reasonable price in ebay. Below is the link to the owners manual.

http://mthtrains.com/sites/def...ction/20st14483i.pdf

Williams brass Samhongsa-built version; no doubt about it. Easy upgrade (at least using ERR) to command/sound, if you wish. Good gearing.

I do not have one, but I have several other of their locomotives from the same production period (Niagara, USRA Heavy Pacific, USRA Mike) and they are good equipment. 

I'm no Pennsy guy, but that streamlined version pictured above always catches my eye.

Jonathan,

Great lineup.   I still remember the time that you posted all of your GG1's.  Now that was a real lineup.

Norm

I did lose interest in my RailKing K4 after I bought my Premier version several years later. That's why I sold it. 

But now I run O-27 at home and scale stuff at the club, so in retrospect I wish I had kept the traditional sized version, too. 

So, your home layout obviously will play a role in your decision. 

Regardless, the K4 is a great choice. Enjoy whatever you get. 

Norm posted:

Jonathan,

Great lineup.   I still remember the time that you posted all of your GG1's.  Now that was a real lineup.

Norm

Thanks Norm!  Wish I had a layout in place to do some new pictures with all the current ones lined up. 

Once more I thank you guys for your perspective.  With the possibility of being banned from this forum I thought I would snap a couple of photos of my "layout".  I was not exaggerating when I said in one post that I sat on the floor like a 12 year old kid.  Clearly I have no room for larger trains or larger curves.  If I put any more track in my study I will be unable to get to my roll-top desk.  What was I thinking?  BTW the photographed trains are only a small fraction of my hoard.