Postwar Lionel 633 question

I'm confused, your book says it should have a traction tire, and yours has one.

What is the discrepancy?

CW Burfle,

Here is some info.

I hope this helps:

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=633

Ralph

quote:

I'm confused, your book says it should have a traction tire, and yours has one.

 

What is the discrepancy?

The one I picked up has both axles driven. According to the book, only one axle should be driven.
The difficulty with collecting late switchers and ALCOs is that parts can be easily swapped around. I have looked at a number of 633's with single axle drive, but I never noticed whether or not they had a traction tire.

quote:

CW Burfle,

Here is some info.

Thank you for the link. That site says yes to the traction tire.

It dawned on my that I could check the Postwar Lionel parts list.

It does list a grooved wheel and traction tire.

Now I have to decide if I want to put back the correct motor.

Thanks for the replies!

CW Burfle,

Here's another link:

http://www.tandem-associates.c...onel/lionelident.htm

Ralph

Jeff Kane's "The Train Tender" usually has most parts, either original and/or reproduced.

http://www.ttender.com

Ralph

CW, Don't change the truck. Your's is correct. The 633 was produced both ways. the 633 switcher was produced with 1 or 2 powered axles, depending on the set it was to be sold with.

Chuck Sartor,

Thank you for this extra info.

I did not know about the two different motorized axels.

Ralph

Neither did I!

Thank you Chuck.

There is a lot of knowledge that is not in the price guide books, or on online web pages.
This web site certainly facilitates the exchange of this information.

Based on Chuck Sartor's comment, I got out my "Authoritative Guide to Lionel's Promotional Outfits. (great book)
What a surprise!

According to this book:

the single axle drive version is a 633-25. It came in one promotional set from 1962.

The dual axle drive version is a 633-50. It came in five different promotional sets in 1962, and one set in 1963.

I only saw 1 cataloged set, made in 1962.

That's interesting information.  Until now I wasn't aware that traction tires were used this early let alone the drive line difference.  One can only imagine the rampant penny pinching during this point in Lionel's history.  2 different 633 versions dependent on the performance needed for different sets...so tight it squeaks.  Then came the 634....no tires, both couplers are dummies and lesser decoration on the '66 version.

Bruce

quote:

 Then came the 634....no tires, both couplers are dummies and lesser decoration on the '66 version.

I checked the 634 I had handy. It has a single traction tire. I checked the Lionel parts list for the 634 (it has its own page). a grooved wheel and traction tire is listed.

Some time ago I looked into the subject of when Lionel introduced diesel traction tires, and came to the conclusion it was probably 1962. The diesel traction tire carries the part number 222-108, and the grooved wheel is 222-107. The 222 is a 1962 locomotive.

The grooved steam engine wheel's part number is 242-217, the tire is 242-206. the 242 locomotive was also introduced in 1962.

I have my 634 at hand, the '66 version without safety stripes, so I checked.  Dang, it's got a tire too.  It was hard to distinguish from regular, having gained a metallic sheen from use.  Learning all the time from you, C.W.  Thanks.

Bruce

Now that I know that the Postwar Lionel 633 came from the factory with both single and dual driven axle versions, I have another question:

I have been watching 633's on Ebay. So far, they have all been dual axle versions, with an ALCO style coupler mounted on the motor truck.
I believe the single axle versions were sold with no coupler on the motor truck.

Did Lionel include a knuckle coupler on the dual motor truck version of the 633?

(I originally thought the ones with front couples were added post-factory, but there seems to be too many)

Hi CW, I highly doubt any 633's were factory equipped with a front coupler. If a coupler was added, (2243 B unit coupler) it was post factory. I would check for needle nose pliers marks on the aluminum frame.The swing of the short coupler would pull the first car behind the engine off the track on the first 027 curve it tried to go around.

I looked at the motor truck on my dual axle drive 633 the best I could without removing it. I cannot see any tool marks.
As I posted previously, every dual axle drive 633 that I have seen has a front coupler.
I looked at the illustrations in the Project Roars uncataloged set book. Only a couple of the 633 sets were illustrated, and I could not tell from the picture whether there was a front couple.
I also checked the Lionel service manual. There is only one parts sheet that makes no mention of there being dual axle and single axle versions.
Curiously, the parts list also includes a 1033-120 resistor assembly. But it is not shown in the wiring diagram. I have not disassembled my 633 to see if there is one in there. I am guessing that the part was listed in error.

Here is another dual axle drive 633 with a front coupler.

CW,

Now the questions yet to be answered. Keep the little engine by it's lonesome or build up the set pieces while you search for a empty set box? Just a random thought..LOL! 

quote:

Now the questions yet to be answered. Keep the little engine by it's lonesome or build up the set pieces while you search for a empty set box? Just a random thought..LOL! 

I don't really have any interest in trying to assemble sets. The only time I did anything close, it was to replace all the cars that came in a set I picked up. In this particular set, every car was smoke damaged. The engine must have been stored elsewhere, because it did not have any damage. It took years to find the correct cars.

I have kept everything together from the last couple of private party purchases I made.

I have some different postwar Lionel Alco FA units, two-axle drive, one-axle drive, unpowered, 2-position and 3-position E-units or none; they are all later versions, not the diecast frames. No Magne-Traction. The single-axle drive versions have one traction tire. I've changed some shells around to make a pair of single-axle powered units that can pull a decent train (of lighter equipment). So my point is that if shells have been changed around, it's difficult to know what was "original". Plus it seems that some Lionel items had variations (perhaps between catalogued and non-catalogued set versions) that created less-common combinations of features, and the guide books may not have documented all these. I don't concern myself with maintaining originality because I prefer to modify items to suit my own operating preferences.

I recently purchased a 627 center-cab loco which needs some work, and it appears to be the same type of motor. It has two-axle drive and one Magne-traction axle.

quote:

 So my point is that if shells have been changed around, it's difficult to know what was "original". Plus it seems that some Lionel items had variations (perhaps between catalogued and non-catalogued set versions) that created less-common combinations of features, and the guide books may not have documented all these. I don't concern myself with maintaining originality because I prefer to modify items to suit my own operating preferences.

To be clear, I see nothing wrong with Ace swapping things around to suit his needs/desires. 

For those of us who do care about originality, most of the factory configurations are documented, although there are exceptions. 

I thought I would post an update for those who are interested.

I have been watching 633's on EBay.

So far every engine with single axle drive has not had a front couple. The engines with dual axle drive have the front couple.

I should have mentioned, I have also seen a number of "633" locomotives that had the shell mounted on the wrong chassis.