Pre-order nightmare! What would you do?

Would Atlas tell you if a dealer was on credit hold?

RoyBoy,

One way for Martin H to find out. Atlas doesn't want to lose customers and right now, Martin H's dealer isn't helping the Co. Maybe Atlas won't say a word about the dealer, but they could recommend another dealer for Martin H. to go to.

Hi

I have ready through this thread and wondering if I could get the name sent to my email as well.  I am big on customer service. 

Thanks!

Don

OK.  Being a newbie might be the reason I'm the only one to ask this, but if it seems to be happening with more than one Atlas dealer are we sure these dealers are not being put in a bad spot because of Atlas?  Maybe not receiving the amount of units they were supposed to?  Not wanting to say much and risk their dealer status?

 

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with the original reply from the dealer.  If he wants to prioritize shipments by volume I wouldn't have a problem.  In the end it's just a train, not life or death.  I don't think he came off as not caring about your business.  I understand if some take it that way (their opinion), but in my opinion it didn't seem that way.

 

Don't get me wrong, no response since from the dealer is absolutely unacceptable.

I agree with the suggestion that you contact Atlas.  Atlas needs to know which dealers are doing a poor job.  Ultimately, it's Atlas' name that's on the line.

Hardware: NO it is not Atlas. Its the dealers. Either you want to do business or you dont. You don't leave merchandise that was pre-ordered sitting on a pallet week after week after week. There is NO excuse for poor customer service by the same dealer over and over again.

Most of us do not flip out after 1 bad experience or mistake. After 2 or 3 times of the same thing, from the same person...enough is enough.

Gotta agree with Laidoffsick on this one... and we don't always agree on things here.   

 

Now I'll be the first to understand that extreme personal situations can tax someone's normal business workflow, but that's why it's so critical to have back-up in business when things get too dicey.  However the dealer's first email response didn't mention any of that... rather it emphasized he wanted to ship the bigger orders first to pay bills, blah blah blah.   Even if that were the real reason, it's just not something a seasoned business owner should say to any paying customer -- ESPECIALLY in writing like that... since it's so easy to take it the wrong way without other sensory ques that would be present with an in-person dialog.  And besides, it appears this "one-sy" order may have fallen through the cracks anyway, since so much time has now elapsed.

 

Bottom line... if UPS and Fed-Ex can get packages shipped reliably and predictably -- often in just a few days and sometimes even overnight! -- that's the hard part (which too many of us have taken for granted nowadays).  Why should a dealer take weeks/months just to break down pallets and get product back into the UPS/Fed-Ex system for their customers?    

 

Gosh... what would the dealer do if these shipping companies hadn't become such an integral part of making their business look so good these days?  It's not like the dealer needed to handle all the shipping logistics on his own.  A lot of small (and even some large) dealers would be out of business in no time flat if they needed to do that. 

 

We have dealers nowadays who turn product around literally the same day it arrives onsite from the importers.  While I admit I don't normally need THAT level of service for hobby items, I'm not gonna complain when I happen to be on the receiving end of that top-notch service level either.     And over time, that service level begins to set the bar by which everyone else is measured.  That's just human nature whether we like it or not.

 

David

Cancel the order.

If you gave him a cred card No. it is illegal for him to bill your account before shipping the item. If he billed it before shipping call the credit card company and they will fix it.

Don't buy strictly on price, many internet dealers are poorly managed. many have cash flow problems.

Find a dealer with a good reputation, there are many too chose from, and stick with him.

 

Given everyone's increased workload, and communication overload due to email, texts, social media, etc., I would never expect the recipient of an email to infer meaning about anything.  

 

The message needs to be explicit and not buried within a lot of text:  "Please cancel my order".

 

And never deal with someone who doesn't appreciate your business. 

I had the same experience and excuse regarding the shipment of my last two Atlas O Zephyr cars. I thought the excuse seemed contrived. I am curious about the name of the dealer you are working with. Would you mind emailing me the name too? I have one last preorder outstanding with my dealer (Zephyr baggage and lounge) and I am want to consider my options. 

Hahaha.... I whole heartedly agree. English is not that difficult! We should not make excuses for people's own ineptitude or lack of business sense.

I'm having the exact same issue with a particular dealer. Please email me the name too.  Very curious if this is the same dealer. I just emailed him again today and called as well.  No response.  

And that's the end of that chapter!!

Good.  Glad you found one.  It looks like a beauty. 

Ditto!  I haven't heard from my Atlas O dealer that I've contacted several times in the past three weeks (phone and e-mail).  I'd appreciate an e-mail too!

Just an update.  The dealer in question contacted me and shipped the cars I had ordered. I received them and they are great.  This dealer indicated he was going to scale back his preorder business and I would need to place preorders with another dealer for the next release of CZ cars.   Any recommendations for a good Atlas dealer?  Thanks

Aside from the number of brands one carries, I don't know how a dealer would 'scale-back' his preorders?  Either you take pre-orders or don't.  It seems to me that if a dealer can't handle pre-orders than he shouldn't be in the business.  Sounds to me like someone operating out of their garage an doing this as a part-time business.  Nothing wrong with this, but if you take a customer's money you need to deliver.

 

I'm looking for a good dealer, as well, to place my Maxi-Stack order when they are announced.

 

Jim

Could be he's just tired of all the aggravation of needy and demanding customers and the grief that goes with it whenever they don't get exactly what they want or if they don't get it when they think that they are entitled to getting it.

 

Strangely enough, there's this thing called the internet where people go to complain about the slightest of things........ 

 

O tempora! O mores!

whenever they don't get exactly what they want

Last time I succumbed was Lionel's original release of the PRR K-4 (I'm nuts for the K-4). So the hobby shop ordered one (this is So Cal, not too much Pennsy love out here). Took one look at the mal-formed firebox and rejected it. Don't know if the shop ever got rid of it.

These days the only pre-ordering I do is from 3rd rail and GGD.

I believe if you read the OP before commenting, you would see he did NOT pay upfront, so your comment about taking money and not delivering does not apply. I have heard of scaling back, it shouldnt be a unheard of thing for you either. Especially this day and age where "give me the product below dealer cost" and "me first attitudes, you cant believe how important i think i am" to be honest customers are the ones limiting the hobbies growth in my opinion and causing dealers to hang up their hats.


       

It is rare that I pre-order as there are very few items that even begin to justify my interest other than from SMR.

Darn those needy and demanding customers! what an inconvenience for a poor, put upon dealer. Guess a business is better off without customers...

 

Jeff C

 

As a former basement dealer from way back I can tell you some fore sure!

Having thinned out my own inventory of toy trains a few times over the past 5-6 years, I can easily envision a scenario where some inexperienced new dealers may have accepted a huge number of pre-orders only to find pallet loads of stuff delivered all at once and perhaps nowhere to store the new inventory!    We laugh at that image as "a good problem to have", but I can see where it might cause a smaller dealer to think twice about accepting pre-orders if that scenario played out unexpectedly and put him in a bind -- even though the need to store the inventory might only be a very short-term challenge (i.e., as in days).

 

The trend toward BTO has made it "easier" for small dealers and LHS's to compete for more pre-order business.  But larger dealers who've built their businesses over the years have likely acquired warehouse space commensurate with their business growth. 

 

Of course, having the importers "drop ship" orders directly to consumers would solve this issue for dealers of all sizes, but it would increase shipping logistics at the importer level -- a responsibility importers may not want to take on in an era where they're looking to trim every cost possible.  There's a reason some importers choose to only deal "direct" with larger dealers and distributors, and not with every small LHS that carries their product.

 

David 

 

 

Well I can tell you from personal experience that I am beyond p*ssed at this particular dealer as I only got the 8 car El Capitan set and not the 12 that I ordered. Once again he dropped the ball and "FORGOT" to order the extra 4 cars that I ordered.

 

This is twice now...as he "FORGOT" to order my ABBA of 3rd Rail FT's.

 

I finally spoke with this dealer on the phone...he's overwhelmed to say the least and has lost interest. I would guess that the business will be gone within in a year, and he also suggested another dealer for me to try if that tells you anything.

 

MWB, getting exactly what I wanted is NOT even close to your ridiculous statement, nor was I being needy or demanding.  I didn't get what I ordered....some of the very best products on the market...PERIOD!

Try Public Delivery Track,they are a forum sponsor,I have received all of my CZ Cars from them.

Mikey

LOS situation would PO anyone.  If you order something, you expect to get it.

 

I've had orders messed up-it's how a dealer handles the situation that determines if I do business with them again.  In LOS deal, I'd be done with them prior to him telling me to order from someone else.  This guy won't be in business soon.  What a joke.

Atlas is sold out. I have just a very few left that aren't taken with pre-orders. Based on the cars currently available on eBay I expect you'll be able to get them even when they ship. 

 

BTW. I'm happy to take pre-orders - Atlas, MTH, Lionel, even 3rd Rail. Our only issue right now is we need more room - our 5400 square feet is getting cramped! 

Originally Posted by 2railguy:

I read the original post and the last line in the first paragraph in my post doesn't change a thing, as quite honestly, whether money changes hands up front or not is irrelevant. 

 

The reason to pre-order is to guarantee that you (buyer) receive a product (presuming that the manufacturer has enough orders to make the item.)  As such, you are committed to purchasing the item when delivered. 

 

If you can't deliver a product (whether there is a pre-payment or not) then you (seller) shouldn't be taking orders. Period, end of story!

 

And, how do you scale back pre-orders?  Say that you are only going to accept orders from the first 50 customers?  Every one else can try again next time.  The only logical way that I can think of to scale back is to scale back on the product lines

 

Regarding:

 

"Especially this day and age where "give me the product below dealer cost" and "me first attitudes, you cant believe how important i think i am" to be honest customers are the ones limiting the hobbies growth in my opinion and causing dealers to hang up their hats."

 - WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? 

 

Who is expecting merchandise below cost?  Dealers post their prices to attract customers.  So, it is the dealers setting their prices, not their customers. 

 

Personally, I'm looking for a new Atlas dealer, as the one I use to order from is no longer in business. 

 

Regarding being a customer, I think I am pretty important.  If a businessman or businesswoman doesn't agree, then I take my business (money) elsewhere. 

 

Lastly, its not the customers who are limiting the hobby and causing dealers to hang up their hats.  Some dealers leave the business to retire or move into other endeavors.  For other dealers, there are only so many hobby dollars that everyone is chasing.  A lot of dealers are very savvy and know how to chase after customers in the 21st century.  These are normally the businesses that do well.  Other dealers, either stuck in the past of not caring about their customers, often get left behind.

 

Jim

Ummmm, here is what you said "Nothing wrong with this, but if you take a customer's money you need to deliver." Since he didnt pay upfront, like i said this doesnt apply.

Its easy for you to explain in theory how pre-orders and business should work, i sure wish everything worked exactly like professors teach in college, but it dont pal.

Alot of these guys knock a few points off to be a little more attractive then the next guy, then you have to deal with the 75%+ impatient customers calling or emailing for updates daily, weekly, etc... Think it dont happen? In my business yesterday we received 6 emails asking for tracking updates on stuff they bought the friday night 7/3 after 8pm, sat 7/4 looking for tracking when posted we and shipping companies are closed.

You didnt understand what i'm talking about? Here make it easy to follow.

Customer preordered
Wait, but still send dealer few emails ask for update, see if they know something thats not posted
Manufacture announce shipping preorder
Ring ring ring call place you preordered with the day announced shipping prorders, when is mine shipping? Oh you dont have them, ok.
Next day repeat above, possibly send multiple emails too.
Next day repeat, and so on.

You dont realize how impatient most people are and what they dont realize all the time they waste answering emails and calls they could pack much faster and speed up delivery. Also its just not trains. Factor all that then the people who dont pay for the preorder, the business  has to sit there hoping they break even to pay the manufacture and ask why am i doing this? Makes me wonder why a few of you are looking for new dealers every time a preorder is out and why the dealer would give you another dealers name, think about it.

Oh and by the way, a preorder is NOT a guarantee you are going to receive it.