PRR single door boxcar

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October 2, 2013 3:49 PM

PRR single door boxcar

MTH Premier 20-90199 single door boxcar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Last edited by pro hobby November 29, 2013 7:38 PM
 
 
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October 2, 2013 3:57 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought MTH only offered PS-1 boxcars, however Atlas O actually offered the TRUE & CORRECT PRR X-29 boxcars.

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 4:35 PM

Note: I am looking for prototype photos of this exact PRR X29 version.

 

There are no prototype photos since the MTH model is not an X29.  It's a boxcar, it's lettered for PRR but that is about where the similarity ends.  The Atlas model is accurate.

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 4:44 PM

Thanks BOB. Although those MTH boxcars are really nice, I was pretty sure that they are NOT PRR X-29s. I have a number of the Atlas PRR X-29s, which are super looking cars, especially the "high speed" special express cars which even have the steam conduits on each end!

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 5:02 PM

MTH advertised those as 40' AAR boxcars.

 

----Nick----

"All that I am or ever hope to be, I owe to my angel Mother."

 

 
 
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October 2, 2013 5:51 PM

My apologies, I had missed that in your original post. To be honest, this is why I have chosen to liquidate my MTH Premier rolling stock collection and stick to Atlas O. Just too many instances where they take a specific class of freight car and incorrectly represent it with generic designs.

 

----Nick----

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October 2, 2013 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by pro hobby:

PRR X29 single door boxcar addition for O Scale railroad museum

 

My O scale railroad museum recently acquired a Pennsylvania X29 boxcar #6225. 

But in reality, it is NOT a "correct" X-29 boxcar!

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 7:47 PM

They do that with cabooses too.

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 7:49 PM

 Note: I am looking for prototype photos of this exact PRR X29 version.

 

 

As others have posted this is a model of a 1937 AAR box car.  I am not an PRR freight car expert but the MTH model is likely close (and certainly close in overall dimensions) to an early car from among the 4500 rebuilt into X-29Bs.

 

There are no prototype photos since the MTH model is not an X29.  It's a boxcar, it's lettered for PRR but that is about where the similarity ends.  The Atlas model is accurate.

 

 

Atlas O actually offered the TRUE & CORRECT PRR X-29 boxcars.

 

 

Those statements should be tempered with the knowledge that there were many, many original and rebuilt versions of the X29 over the decades.

 

Be advised that the Atlas X29 model is based on an early X29 with small dimensions.  There were several later rebuilt versions that used old X29 underframes with new bodies of greater height and width.  The link below is the best on line reference that I have found on the PRR X29 series.  Look at the photo section and you will get an idea of how different a "X29" box car could be.  The early X29s like the Atlas versions are about the size of a USRA box car while the X29D and X29E resemble much larger post-war AAR box cars.

 

http://prr.railfan.net/freight...spage.html?class=X29

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought MTH only offered PS-1 boxcars

 

The first box car model put out in the MTH Premier line was a 40 foot PS-1 although MTH never advertised it that way.  MTH now makes about a dozen different Premier box car models.  The 40 footers are the PS-1, 1937 AAR and USRA single and double sheathed cars.

 

To be honest, this is why I have chosen to liquidate my MTH Premier rolling stock collection and stick to Atlas O. Just too many instances where they take a specific class of freight car and incorrectly represent it with generic designs.

 

 

Atlas has put out many "kinda close" versions of generic models too.  I know Hill Lines freight cars well enough to feel comfortable saying that most of the O scale Great Northern box cars that Atlas has offered over the last 15 years have the wrong roof and ends for the cars that they purport to represent.  A few are just totally dimensionally wrong.

 

Whether its Atlas, Lionel, MTH, Weaver or others, all the manufactures put out dozens of close enough (for them) box cars.  If you know your prototype and evaluate each model you can decide if it is close enough for you before purchasing. 

 

 

 

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 8:08 PM

I am not an PRR freight car expert but the MTH model is likely close (and certainly close in overall dimensions) to an early car from among the 4500 rebuilt into X-29Bs.

Regarding the original poster's original request that he is looking for photos of "this exact PRR X29 version" I stand by my original answer that there are no photos because the MTH model is NOT an X-29. 

 

Ted, you're a great guy and you are exactly correct in that you are not a PRR freight car expert.  The MTH model is not close to any of the versions of the X29.  All versions: original, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, K and L had straight sills on the bottom while the MTH car does not.  Later versions of the X29 were stenciled with their new class, like X29D.  The MTH car is lettered as an X29.  Regarding your "overall dimensions" comment, I can find a brick that is the same overall dimensions as an X29E but it won't be a very good model. 

 

You are also correct in that we modelers should do our research before purchasing any equipment from any of the manufacturers.  In the case of the Atlas X29, it was designed by Middle Division with input from the PRR Technical and Historical Society so it is as accurate as the prototype equipment diagrams and photos used to produce it.

 

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 9:49 PM

Bob

 

Thanks for chiming in.  As I said, I know the Hill Lines well but PRR prototype rolling stock is not my specialty.  Any additional info you can add would be most welcome. 

 

I agree that the X29s from Atlas are well researched and nicely done.   That isn't always the case regardless of manufacturer.  I have a few beautifully decorated box cars with prototypical paint schemes and authentic car numbers.  They are nicely detailed with well executed grab irons, ladders and running boards.  They aren't X29s but they are from Atlas.  They don't even match the dimensions of a brick scaled from the prototype.    I'm not sure how one would categorize them as models. 

 

 

The prr.railfan.net site that I linked above says of the X29B that they were rebuilt between 1940 and 1950 and had "Corrigated Roof & ends". The photos of X29Bs on that site show improved dreadnought ends and diagonal panel roofs which would have come on the market in the later years of the rebuild program.  Early X29Bs could not have had those roofs and ends since they had not been manufactured yet.  Were Viking roofs used on some early X29Bs?  If so, the MTH or the less common version of the Atlas ARR box car would be a good candidate for an X29B stand in.  For the later X29E the Atlas Trainman box car would seem to be the closest starting point.

 

The MTH car is lettered as an X29. 

 

I can't see the class lettering in Pro Hobbies photo.  Do you have a better photo or one of these models?  Do you have a reference that would show if PRR 6229 was applied to an X29 or any of the X29 sub classes?  If PRR 6229 is not an X29 car number any idea where it might have come from?  As a PRR fan do you have any additional on line references to recommend to those interested in accurate car types and road numbers?

 

Thanks for all the info. 

 

 

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 9:49 PM

 
        
                   
         
 

MTH Premier 20-90199

 

Now that it has been determined that this car has incorrect lettering I may need to remove the reference to X29 and replace the lettering.

 

 

Any suggestions?

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by pro hobby:
 
        
                   
         
 

MTH Premier 20-90199

 

Now that it has been determined that this car has incorrect lettering I may need to remove the reference to X29 and replace the lettering.

 

 

Any suggestions?

Just my opinion but, if I wanted a CORRECT PRR X-29 boxcar, I would purchase an Atlas piece. There still must be some of those out there someplace.

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 10:18 PM

Not sure of this - is not the Lionel X714 box an X29?  If so, the Williams repro is showing up on eBay for as low as $70, which is ok for a brass car.

 
 
 
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October 2, 2013 11:53 PM

Pro

 

If you are planning to repaint the car I would consider C&O, Erie of NKP.  The Van Sweringen Lines were fond of Viking roofs.

 

http://www.steamerafreightcars.../1937aarpdfmain.html

 

I'm curious if our PRR experts can provide more info on early X29B rebuilds.  Did any of them have Viking roofs?

 

For those interested in the Atlas X29 they can be found in the six Atlas product announcements....

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar.htm

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar1.htm

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar2.htm

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar3.htm

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar4.htm

 

http://www.atlaso.com/ox29boxcar5.htm

 

...or under Middle Division on the special runs page.

 

http://www.atlaso.com/specialruns.htm

 
Last edited by Ted Hikel October 3, 2013 12:18 AM
 
 
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October 3, 2013 10:15 AM

MTH Premier 20-90199 single door boxcar

 

First appeared in:     2005 Volume 1

 

 

This car is part of a set of 6 cars issued by MTH.  Where did they get the artwork for this set?  Are the road numbers printed on the cars actually PRR numbers?  

 

 
 
  6-Car 40' AAR Box Car Set - PRR Nos. Nos. 6204 6205 6213 6211 6222 6225
 
 

 

 

20-90199

 
Last edited by pro hobby October 3, 2013 10:21 AM
 
 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by pro hobby:

MTH Premier 20-90199 single door boxcar

 

First appeared in:     2005 Volume 1

 

 

This car is part of a set of 6 cars issued by MTH.  Where did they get the artwork for this set?  Are the road numbers printed on the cars actually PRR numbers?  

 

 
 
  6-Car 40' AAR Box Car Set - PRR Nos. Nos. 6204 6205 6213 6211 6222 6225
 
 

 

 

20-90199

What difference does it make, since those boxcars are NOT PRR X29 cars anyway?

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 11:31 AM

I have Atlas 'O' Master Line Series PRR X29 box cars that are modeled and marked very close to the real PRR box car, as are shown in PRR photos.

I find with Lionel, MTH and yes, even Weaver Models, that most of their box cars are of the PS-1 shape and size, regardless of what railroad and type of box car, these companies claim that their box cars are to represent!
What, makes me laugh is, when manufacturers produce a freight car that never existed in real life, just to sell their product.

I call these kind of freight cars fantasy scheme/dream cars!!!!
Ralph 

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 11:43 AM

Bob, Ted and Hot Water,

You are all correct in your analogies of the true X29 box car's shape and size and that Atlas 'O' makes a truer X29 box car, in all aspects, than most others.

As, I have previously posted, that I model the PRR and I have researched the various freight cars of the PRR, to agree with you Gentlemen.

Ted, you have some collection of extensively, researched reference materials.

Ralph

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 11:52 AM

Seems to me that unless it looks something like this:

 

prr29

it ain't an X29...

 

Rusty

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 12:05 PM

Is this the correct one?  Matt

Atlas PRR X 29 box car

 

Railway termini are our gates to the glorious and the unknown. Through them we pass out into adventure and sunshine, to them, alas! we return.
Edward M. Forster

 
 
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October 3, 2013 12:08 PM

 

 

The PRR didn't have any 40' box cars with Viking roofs.  The road numbers chosen by MTH are also incorrect for a PRR freight car.   As of the January 1953 Official Railway Equipment Register PRR freight car numbers ranged from a low of 25501 to a high of 947983 (all 5 or 6 digit numbers). 

 

The AtlasO X29's were offered with several door and end variations reflecting early through late production cars.  They also modified the tooling to build several Railway Express Service versions.  Express service details include door steps, extra side and end grabs, steam lines,  and marker light corner brackets.  Nick Seaman of Middle Division is a PRR subject matter expert and did an outstanding job in collaborating with Atlas to create their X29 box cars and H21 hoppers.  If one is looking for another accurate model of a postwar PRR box car, the AtlasO Trainman model of the X43c is a good choice.  The body on that car was developed initially for Atlas by Roco around 1972 based on PRR blueprints furnished by the late Ted Stepek.  The AtlasO  USRA outside braced 40' box car is also a nice representation of a PRR X26 - a few of which lasted into the 1950's.

 

 

 Ed Rappe

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by boin106:

Is this the correct one?  Matt

Atlas PRR X 29 box car

One of them, YES!

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 12:14 PM

If you go to this web site you will find photos and list of Prr Rolling stock

 

http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 7:15 PM

Yes Boss, that looks to be an Atlas 'O' Master Line Series, X29 PRR box car.

Rusty's photo. is great for comparison.

Hot Water posted: "One of them."

Keystone Ed, points out the variations and suzukovich gives an important link.

Excellent posts, all!!

Ralph

 

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 8:58 PM

Originally Posted by RJL:

Yes Boss, that looks to be an Atlas 'O' Master Line Series, X29 PRR box car.

Rusty's photo. is great for comparison.

Hot Water posted: "One of them."

Keystone Ed, points out the variations and suzukovich gives an important link.

Excellent posts, all!!

Ralph

 

Here are some more links, PICs. Photos, Diagrams.

 

PRR railfan links have a lot of great info not only the X29 but all PRR Rolling stock

 

http://prr.railfan.net/

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...ox&sz=sm&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...ox&sz=sm&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/freight...spage.html?class=X29

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...erv-phase-i-box-cars

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 9:58 PM

The prr.railfan.net X29 page describes the X29B as follows:

 


  • 4500 X29's rebuilt 1940-1950
  • New body on old underframe
  • Corrigated Roof & ends
  • 10'6" interior height
  • 3478 cu ft capacity

 

The photos and drawing of the X29B show R+3/4 improved dreadnought ends and Stanray diagonal panel roofs.  Those components were available in the late 1940s and 1950s .  They were not available in 1940.  Either prr.railfan.net has the start date of the X29B rebuild program incorrect or some type of roof and end other than those shown in the photos was used on the early X29Bs.  Does anyone know when or with what type of components the X29B rebuild program began?

 

 

 
 
 
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October 3, 2013 11:39 PM

Great info. suzukovich and Ted.

The info., you both supply, is not only informative, but also interesting and enjoyable.

All pertinent and extra info. is always welcomed.

Thank you both,

Ralph 

 
 
 
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October 4, 2013 5:42 AM

Ralph wrote:

 

I find with Lionel, MTH and yes, even Weaver Models, that most of their box cars are of the PS-1 shape and size, regardless of what railroad and type of box car, these companies claim that their box cars are to represent!

 

So true.  I had a Weaver car painted and lettered for Seaboard Air Line that was suppose to represent their REA Express car.  Turned out to be a PS-1 vice a car very similar to the PRR X29 car Rusty Traque posted above.  The most notable difference to me is the riveted ends on the X29 vice the ribbed ends on the PS-2 model.

 

Here's a photo of the Weaver car before I repainted it:

 

 

It made for a nice PS-1 though once I repainted/relettered it with decals from Jerry Glow:

 

 

I wish manufacturers wouldn't take such liberties with their product.  This Weaver car is very nice and has a number of separate detail items that I noticed when I took it apart for stripping.  All they had to do was put a correct paint and decal job on it.

 

Last year I redid 5 PS-1 cars from Weaver, MTH, and Lionel, involving repainting/decaling and making new doors (just got in some brass hardware for the doors from PSC so I can finish them).  Not all PS-1 cars had 8' Superior doors.

 

MODELING THE SEABOARD AIR LINE

Fortune Presents Gifts Not According to the Book

 
 
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October 4, 2013 10:24 AM

Here is one link of a PRR X29 box car:http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=75348380 

Also, notice, the extra attachments of PRR's REA box car, as Rusty Traque's photo. shows and as, Keystone Ed points out.  

 

Now, another link showing the transformation into a PRR X29B box car, for PRR MS P I about 1946, or 1947, as shown: http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=121415257

Notice, if you can, the size differences between the X29 and X29B cars.

The X29 car is lower and slightly narrower, than the X29B car.
Ralph 

 
 
 
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October 4, 2013 11:11 AM

I just noticed that the original poster has edited the title of this thread, plus the original post, so as NOT referring to that MTH boxcar as a "PRR X29". An appropriate move.

 
 
 
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October 4, 2013 12:09 PM

pro hobby,

Good move to have changed the title.

 

Ted,

I do not know what components were used on PRR's X29B cars, or any other RR, which had X29 cars.

Ralph

 
 
 
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October 7, 2013 1:04 AM

Beautiful Seaboard 'Silver Star' box car, Bob.

Ralph

 
 
 
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