Question about Lionel 2016 Christmas Aquarium Car

Matt_GNo27 posted:

I have written Lionel, c.c.ing Charles Ro, where the car was purchased, expressing my disappointment.

Here is my son watching the sleighs on the Winter Wonderland car go around and around while the train sat in neutral. Magical moments like this are what make trains great, and are not possible with gear-driven and/or unlit cars.

Matt, did Ro charge you any kind of a restocking fee on this item for sending it back?

Joe Gozzo

Trainlover160 posted:

Also makes me wonder if Mike Regan is aware of the issue and what they might be doing to correct it this leaves a huge question mark in my mind about any future orders for something as simple as this. It makes a person wonder what other corners may be cut, on lower end items.

Joe gozzo

Joe,

Mike Regan does not work for Lionel any longer.

Dave45681 posted:

...  I seem to recall within the last few years they may have marked a steam engine as having whistle steam and then it didn't when produced.  I wasn't one of the people who bought one of those, so I don't recall the model where that happened.

...

Dave, those were the first production run of the Legacy Berkshire locomotives featured in the 2012 Signature Catalog.  Hard to believe that was almost 5 years ago!

David

Trainlover160 posted:

Matt, did Ro charge you any kind of a restocking fee on this item for sending it back?

Joe Gozzo

I exchanged it in-person at Charles Ro for the 2015 Winter Wonderland Aquarium car, and paid the $12 difference. They did not charge a restocking fee. I asked that they refund the original shipping charge, but they would not. They told me that Lionel reserves the right to make changes to their products.

Lionel responded to my email the next day with the following:

Thank you for your email, I can understand your frustration and apologize for the inconvenience. The items depicted in the catalog may be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." I have forwarded your concerns and comments to the appropriate departments.

I am happy with the Winter Wonderland car.

Matt_GNo27 posted:

...........................

Lionel responded to my email the next day with the following:

Thank you for your email, I can understand your frustration and apologize for the inconvenience. The items depicted in the catalog may be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." I have forwarded your concerns and comments to the appropriate departments.

..............................

With that response, I guess all the VL GG1 buyers are lucky a traditional sized model wasn't substituted!

It's not like a small detail was different than depicted for these aquarium cars.  Motor vs. no motor is a huge difference as most of us here have agreed.  (and the light, but in fairness, the original catalog never called out a light for the three cars with catalog pics shown in this thread,  but it did clearly state motor)

Don't worry, all!  I heard in the hobby shop yesterday that it's only about 3 weeks until the new Lionel catalog, and then we will all forget as we drool over the new offerings (or at least that's what Lionel hopes will happen).

-Dave

Matt_GNo27 posted:

...
Lionel responded to my email the next day with the following:

Thank you for your email, I can understand your frustration and apologize for the inconvenience. The items depicted in the catalog may be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." I have forwarded your concerns and comments to the appropriate departments.

...

Charlie Ro is the best when it comes to taking care of his customers.  I have never been charged a "restocking fee", despite the fact that their return policy indicates items "may" be subject to a re-stocking fee.  But I suspect that's for out-right cases where folks abuse their otherwise very liberal return policy.  I also tend to order something else whenever I returned something, so there's seldom any reason for hard feelings -- especially given the amount of business I've given Charlie over the decades.

As for Lionel's response to you... that's pretty much par for the course.  Always professional and polite...  But in this case, it's clearly a VERY loose interpretation of their catalog disclaimer being used as "the party line".  Changing the drive mechanism, producing scenes that don't fill the entire viewing windows, and the lack of interior illumination are clear production "short-cuts" despite the increased price-point of these cars.  The executives at Lionel nowadays are NOT train folks, and they don't speak our language.  They're bean-counters who sell toy trains just as they would sell widgets.  So we need to speak their language... namely by refusing to accept junk products.  Rather than trying to blow-out these inferior products that are a mere shadow of their former models, dealers should demand Lionel send them a return-label for shipping the entire pallet back to North Carolina.  That will get the attention of bean-counters. 

David

Dave45681 posted:

It's not like a small detail was different than depicted for these aquarium cars.  Motor vs. no motor is a huge difference as most of us here have agreed.

Right?

I responded to Lionel's reply with the following:

Matt_GNo27 posted:

Right?

I responded to Lionel's reply with the following:

That policy might be understandable for say a new product that you ran into difficulties producing as originally described, but the aquarium car is something that Lionel has produced since 1959. 

 

I felt like Clark Griswold getting the "Jelly of the Month Club" instead of his annual Christmas bonus in the classic Christmas movie, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

I like the analogy. 

There were at least a few with this worm drive in the modern era (Gil Finn, the "Gold" 16681, several club issues, some of the first Christmas aquarium cars from the late 90's, and probably others I am not listing), but ever since Lionel re-introduced the motor, I think most of us looked at it as a positive sign and we at that time considered Lionel as "stepping up" to start making them in the far superior method of including a motor.

These recent items destroy that feeling, at least for me.

-Dave

On a lighter note, perhaps next year Lionel will release a VL GG1 "steam locomotive" without either lights or motor, so we have something to pull those new aquarium cars.

I believe all the Lionel modern-era "fish" aquarium cars I acquired throughout the years come with interior illumination with the exception of one that had holographic images.  Interior illumination at the least should be in all aquarium cars.

It would have been nice if the Dealers would have stepped up to the plate and said this just isn't right and shipped them all back to Lionel. But, as David said, at least one of them is still offering the emasculated "Santa's Sleigh" aquarium car for $49.95!

NJCJOE posted:

Trainlover160 posted:

Also makes me wonder if Mike Regan is aware of the issue and what they might be doing to correct it this leaves a huge question mark in my mind about any future orders for something as simple as this. It makes a person wonder what other corners may be cut, on lower end items.

Joe gozzo

Joe,

Mike Regan does not work for Lionel any longer.

Joe,

Thanks for setting me straight as I had not seen the thread on Mike until now. Probably the reason Lionel has responded the way they have. Mike most likely would have fixed it. Was considering pre-ordering the Lioncheif plus halloween steam engine, but have since changed my mind.

I will wait now until it comes out to see the final issue and reviews, as this whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Joe Gozzo

Matt_GNo27 posted:

Thank you for your email, I can understand your frustration and apologize for the inconvenience. The items depicted in the catalog may be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." I have forwarded your concerns and comments to the appropriate departments.

This is an incredible response from Lionel and should give everyone pause when preordering - it does for me. The implications here are huge. The company is pulling out the fine print to justify this? Your next Legacy loco may just show up as a dummy... subject to change afterall.

abbrail posted:

Matt_GNo27 posted:

Thank you for your email, I can understand your frustration and apologize for the inconvenience. The items depicted in the catalog may be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." I have forwarded your concerns and comments to the appropriate departments.

This is an incredible response from Lionel and should give everyone pause when preordering - it does for me. The implications here are huge. ...

Trainlover160 posted:

... I will wait now until it comes out to see the final issue and reviews, as this whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.   ...

I mentioned this over in another thread... namely, I have not pre-ordered ANY big-ticket item since a few years ago when I pre-ordered the FEF-3.  Zip... zilch... nadda.  And guess what?  The world didn't come to an end.  I haven't missed out on ANYTHING that I've wanted after-the-fact.  And here's the even bigger bonus... I've purchased these items at lower price-points than the original pre-order prices.

Now, if you absolutely "must" have a particular item, then by all means... pre-order it.  But if you like going on a shopping spree without pre-order commitments hanging over your head when terrific sales come along... then just sit tight and wait it out.  "Patience is a virtue"  has never been a more relevant phrase than right here... right now. 

I am so OVER  the BTO marketing hype.    And even with non-BTO products like these aquarium cars, it's just safer now to see what's actually delivered.  Between cutting-corners in general (i.e., cheapening the product) and factories feeling the pinch to churn out product quickly without understanding what it is they're really building, why bother pre-ordering?  

Heck... when even a VisionLine product's box is decorated with a cut-and-paste mentality (i.e., 2016's VisionLine GG1 STEAM Locomotive for gosh sakes), you just know a bunch of other more important stuff is bound to get overlooked too.  

David

What a difference a year makes! Now they are listing the gutless aquarium car for what it really is!

Christmas 2017

Christmas 2016

This was really a nice looking car. Shame it couldn't have been made as advertised in 2016!
At least I was able to get my money back. 

Big Jim posted:

What a difference a year makes! Now they are listing the gutless aquarium car for what it really is!

.........................................

This was really a nice looking car. Shame it couldn't have been made as advertised in 2016!
At least I was able to get my money back. 

 

I find it very curious that the Angela Trotta Thomas Aquarium Car still has the text regarding the motor with the on/off switch and the illumination.

For only $5 more than the car without the features, I find it very hard to believe it will have both light and motor. 

I hope they issue a statement before the order period ends and this doesn't become this year's repeat of the lie.  (Actually, what I really hope is that it has the motor and the light, but that seems extremely unlikely)

-Dave

I still can't believe that Lionel would produce a NON-ILLUMINATED aquarium car!!!    That right there tells you something.  The whole point behind having the animated scene is for it to be ILLUMINATED.  But then again, even the animated scenes don't entirely fill the display windows anymore.  So the manufacturing factory doesn't really care what they're assembling anymore.  And nobody from Lionel seems to be overseeing the manufacturing onsite. 

Why are folks even buying this model? 

David

I had chimed in originally since I had purchased the Disney aquarium car from last year.  Catalog description does not mention motor or light for this year, so at least there is some truth for a change.  As Rocky says - no lights defeat the whole purpose of the car.  You can't see anything in the Disney car unless you are a few inches away.  I am taking the approach that many here are stating - nothing will be purchased unless I can hold in in my hands and see if it is acceptable.  The bigger question is - doesn't anyone at Lionel care anymore about the product they make and the customer that buys it?

 I would just wait until the new cars come out and you see them in a train store or you see a review on them before you buy him that eliminates a lot of the heartburn

Joe Gozzo