Question about Lionel 2016 Christmas Aquarium Car

Someone mentioned to me the other day that the lighted coaling tower was priced lower as well. Others?

trestrainfan posted:

2. There is a typo on the description for the 2016 car, and it is gear driven, not operated with a motor.

 

thanks

 

I noticed those prices last year & couldn't figure out while the "royalty named" ones were cheaper.   Trestrainsfan, Lionel doesn't use the gear drive anymore & hasn't for at least 5 years.  My beef is that Lionel aquarium cars are extremely poorly illuminated.  Just one incandescent bulb mid-car, while MTH aquarium cars are equipped with two LEDs.  Lionel really must do a technology upgrade on these very fast.   The last Lionel aquarium car I bought was the Peanuts Halloween version a couple years ago.  It was a letdown given the stiff price.  And given its dismal lighting I vowed not to buy another Lionel aq car until Lionel starts using LEDs.    

I didn't know Lionel had stopped using the gear drive on the aquarium cars. I guess it's been a few years since  I bought one.

I emailed Lionel "Talk to Us" this morning and here is the reply I received:

"The suggested retail on 6-83316 is $79.99. This item has not been manufactured yet.

The suggested retail on the 6-82740 is $94.99.

There are many factors that go into pricing these items. Please keep in mind that our dealers have the ability to set their own prices. Both items should have motors."

Thanks to all for your replies. I like the graphics on the outside of the 2016 car and the strip inside the car looks neat, so I'm thinking of getting it.

Well, I ordered 3 Christmas cars back in February. The store I order from holds the order until all the cars come in, so I just received the order.

The 2016 Christmas aquarium car is the old style with the gear drive. Radioron, unfortunately for me, your information is incorrect, and Lionel "Talk to Us" also gave me an incorrect answer. 

To make matters worse, the scene inside the care doesn't even extend  to cover the windows, so there is a big gap and you can see all the way through and out the window on the other side. It ruins the "aquarium" effect when the scene doesn't cover the window. I have some older aquarium cars, and I don't remember the older cars having this problem.

One of the main reasons I bought the car was because I wanted one of the more modern aquarium cars with the motor drive. The catalog is wrong as it says it has a motor drive, and the photo in the catalog is inaccurate as it must be a mock up as it shows the scene covering the window, not the large gap that exists on the real car.

I'm disappointed to say the least. What a piece of junk. Lionel should be embarrassed to sell something that is so different in features and appearance from what is depicted in the catalog.

The Disney Aquarium Car I just picked up has the same issue.  2016 Starter set catalog claims it's a motor, but the actual product was produced with the inferior worm gear on the axle (I looked at the catalog itself on-line to see the motor description, but if you just search for the product via search, it leaves out that info - probably edited once produced).

Looks like the bean counters are trying to maximize profits and cheapen the item after the price was determined.  Not good!

original catalog:

new on-line description:

-Dave

As buyers, do we have any recourse?  The item was advertised as containing a motor and then changed later. False advertising?  Can you refuse to purchase the item once it arrives? (Of course this won't endear you to the seller.)  Also, IIRC, the catalog does state that items are subject to change. I echo your comments about the bean counters.  Lionel offered two LCS sensor cars, traditional and scale, and were priced accordingly. A month or so after the catalog was out and my order place, Lionel cancels the traditional car. My speculation is that there is more profit in the scale version. I ordered a traditional one because that's what I operate and how my layout is setup, i.e. smaller radius curves and closer track spacing.  I'm considering retrofitting the sensor parts from the scale version into a traditional car.  

Steve

(and sorry I hijacked this thread a little.)

My son bought an runs the polar express aquarium type car.  I didn't look at the drive mechanism but it does have an on and off switch.  I like that the switch is big enough for a smalll or an arthritic hand to operate.  The strip was stuck to the rollers like they almost always are, but other than that it was pretty nice.  There is a open "porthole" in the end that you could probably get the strip moving with your finger if it wasn't stuck too bad.  I believe it was 60 dollars at a show.

trestrainfan posted:

 

... To make matters worse, the scene inside the care doesn't even extend  to cover the windows, so there is a big gap and you can see all the way through and out the window on the other side. It ruins the "aquarium" effect when the scene doesn't cover the window. I have some older aquarium cars, and I don't remember the older cars having this problem.

One of the main reasons I bought the car was because I wanted one of the more modern aquarium cars with the motor drive. The catalog is wrong as it says it has a motor drive, and the photo in the catalog is inaccurate as it must be a mock up as it shows the scene covering the window, not the large gap that exists on the real car.

I'm disappointed to say the least. What a piece of junk. Lionel should be embarrassed to sell something that is so different in features and appearance from what is depicted in the catalog.

I noticed this as well when I ordered one of the aquarium cars last year.  It was obvious without even taking the car out of the box that the illuminated scene doesn't span the entire window display.  I promply returned mine.  The older Lionel and newer MTH aquarium cars aren't made with this defect.

Once again, it's another example of Lionel's ever-increasing, "We don't care... It's good enough... And we're gonna increase prices anyway" mentality.   And if folks don't return junk like this, Lionel is gonna keep pumping out more junk and think everything's gonna be just fine "just because" the Lionel name is on the box.  The Chinese factories don't give a hoot one iota.  And Lionel's folks manning the TalkToUs department are well-intended but often clueless.  

David

RideTheRails posted:

As buyers, do we have any recourse?  The item was advertised as containing a motor and then changed later. False advertising?  Can you refuse to purchase the item once it arrives? (Of course this won't endear you to the seller.)  ...

 

And when did settling for a crappy product become acceptable?  If you don't like it because it's junk (i.e., the scene doesn't even span the windows properly), just return it.  If you're dealing with a reputable seller, they won't have a problem with you returning it.  And they should return the whole shipment back to Lionel on their dime.

You work hard for your $$$$.  Why settle?  

David

Adding my two cents to the discussion- re: the Disney car - very disappointed that it had the old gear - but - the real kicker was that it had no lighting either.  The car itself is beautiful - great, sharp graphics.  You have to wonder why they go so cheap on an otherwise nice car - is lighting and motor or just lighting add that much more to the cost of the car?  Esp since it's a Disney item and has a premium added to it already for the licensing.

Thanks for all the comments.

I'll comment on my earlier post. The car isn't a piece of junk, but it isn't what is advertised in the catalog.

I'm very disappointed as it doesn't have the major feature that attracted me, the motor drive, and the image in the catalog doesn't give an accurate depiction of how the "aquarium scene" is smaller than the window openings. Granted, it is a fantasy car, but it ruins the fantasy when the scene doesn't fill the window and you can see clear through and out the other side around the scene.

trestrainfan posted:

...  Granted, it is a fantasy car, but it ruins the fantasy when the scene doesn't fill the window and you can see clear through and out the other side around the scene.

When Lionel is trying to generate excitement for pre-orders, isn't it amazing how the catalog illustration doesn't depict the scene not filling the entire window???    Of course not!!! That wouldn't be acceptable to look at.  Our eyes would spot that in a heartbeat, and nobody would pre-order one.

So why is it suddenly acceptable that the product arrives in the States with this defect??? 

Just send it back.  That's the ONLY way Lionel will correct the problem -- a problem that perpetuates through their modern aquarium offerings for a couple of years now.   Lionel has gotta drive the change on this end, 'cause the Chinese don't care what the final product looks like... they're just contracted to build the silly thing.  And if Lionel "accepts" it, the Chinese factory is gonna keep building them that way.

David

SWANKO posted:

re: the Disney car - very disappointed that it has the old gear - but - the real kicker is that it lacks lighting.  The car itself is beautiful, great, sharp graphics.  You must wonder why they go so cheap on an otherwise nice car. Does lighting & motor or just lighting add that much more to the cost of the car?  Esp since it's a Disney item & has a premium added to it already for the licensing.

Selling this at a "Disney premium" price without the motor drive is bad enough, but Lionel is just sticking it to anyone who was looking forward to this car (OR who pre-ordered it) by not even having interior illumination!  Are you sure the bulb just isn't blown/loose?  Does it have a power pick-up roller?

I have bought many Lionel aquarium cars in the last 20+ years, but have come to realize their technology is lagging behind MTH.  While MTH cars have TWO LEDs (one behind each "window"), Lionel sticks with the one measly incandescent bulb... dead center in the car... which provides virtually no illumination for the two windows.  But is Lionel pricing their AQ cars lower than MTH because of this technology gap?   What do you think?  

No power pickup, but I should be able to add one with no problem.  Really puzzling that it would be so bare-bones since it is Disney.  Perhaps an oversight at the factory? 

This is the very reason I have leaned towards the MTH Aquarium Cars, and have seen them as low as $57.97.

Joe Gozzo

I myself bought all the aquarium cars that were offered as I do ever year. I collect them. I'm only missing a few "golden eggs" but I have them all including the command cars and 2 pre production 1of1 documented catalog picture cars.  These piles if crap they are selling now have me VERY disappointed.. I DON'T EVEN HAVE A LIGHT BULB.  Hey Lionel. I'm giving you good money give us a light bulb so we can see the "gear driven " belt move. I'll sell my hole dam collection and start collecting MTH.. Rant over. 

WIZ

SWANKO posted:

No power pickup, but I should be able to add one with no problem.  Really puzzling that it would be so bare-bones since it is Disney.  Perhaps an oversight at the factory? 

Not an oversight.  Not one of them this year has a light. 

I forgot. What's wrong with this picture?  Well according to no less then 4 people so far. They have told me that "one my lights is burned out". Take a guess what car that is. Yes this year's Xmas car. 

SWANKO posted:

No power pickup, but I should be able to add one with no problem. ....

Huh???     WTF!!!  Are you seriously saying Lionel is selling an aquarium car WITHOUT interior illumination now???   That's a new all-time low -- even by Lionel standards.   I'm glad I stopped buying this crap after I ordered one a year ago and noticed the scenes no longer span the entire window openings.  Had no regrets whatsoever returning it back to the dealer -- aside from the fact it was disappointing that the factory cut corners again.  And now to hear there's no illumination... Come on, Lionel... why even bother?  

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

SWANKO posted:

No power pickup, but I should be able to add one with no problem. ....

Huh???     WTF!!!  Are you seriously saying Lionel is selling an aquarium car WITHOUT interior illumination now???   That's a new all-time low -- even by Lionel standards.   I'm glad I stopped buying this crap after I ordered one a year ago and noticed the scenes no longer span the entire window openings.  Had no regrets whatsoever returning it back to the dealer -- aside from the fact it was disappointing that the factory cut corners again.  And now to hear there's no illumination... Come on, Lionel... why even bother?  

David

Find the new one. Lol

My other issue with these cars in the past is the wiring. Lionel used to put a small drop of solder on the wire going to the pickup. After running the car, the wire would break right at the solder joint, and was difficult to repair. However, the first car i purchased from MTH had  a a lug crimped to the wire and sealed with shrink tubing. The lug was then slid onto the pickup roller.

I really hate stating anything negative, as all manufacturers have their issues, however, this is a real nit with me and have noticed this on more than one type of car.

Joe

Trainlover160 posted:

This is the very reason I have leaned towards the MTH Aquarium Cars, and have seen them as low as $57.97.

Joe Gozzo

hello Trainlover160

I have a MTH Railking Blue Marlin Aquarium car # 30-79280 and purchased this car in Dec 2010.   This car has been trouble free for 6 years and I have operated for hours totally ( 5 to 10 minutes at a time) since 2010.   I have not done anything to the car except to keep the roller pick ups and wheels clean that's all.   The LED's still bright,  flat side can motor, gearbox, no paint peeling from the fishes on the film,  works really good.   This has to be my BEST operating car and my WORSE one is the lionel milk car (could never get it to work right), gave up on it and never bought a lionel operating car since 2009.   It looks like MTH Aquarium cars are build to last and this car proves it to me !!!   I have faith on the MTH operating cars and they do work as they are suppose to except the smoking tank car (bad board) turned it into non-smoking car.   I paid 69.00 for the Blue Marlin car in 2010 new in the box.  I really LOVED this car.   It is well worth its price and very well made.  MTH did a outstanding job on this one !!!!!!!   I love small live aquariums they are so relaxing.............

"Everything that breathes, praise the Lord!  Praise the Lord!" Psalm 150:6 ERV (Easy to Read version)

Tiffany

"Huh???     WTF!!!  Are you seriously saying Lionel is selling an aquarium car WITHOUT interior illumination now???   That's a new all-time low -- even by Lionel standards. "

What a bummer! Mine are going back where they came from. Shame on Lionel!!!

trestrainfan posted:

The 2016 Christmas aquarium car is the old style with the gear drive. Radioron, unfortunately for me, your information is incorrect, and Lionel "Talk to Us" also gave me an incorrect answer. 

 

As far as I am concerned, by statement was correct... I hadn't known that Lionel (just now) revived the use of the gear-drive aquarium car.   My statement that they hadn't used it for 5-6+ years (maybe 10 years) was correct until people here started reporting that the gear-drive had made a  return.

I'm surprised a bigger stink hasn't been made over these non-illuminated aquarium cars! I, for one, hope that everyone returns this junk and Lionel has to eat them all for Christmas dinner! 

Big Jim posted:

I'm surprised a bigger stink hasn't been made over these non-illuminated aquarium cars! I, for one, hope that everyone returns this junk and Lionel has to eat them all for Christmas dinner! 

As soon as I get a free minute I'm going to make a big deal about it..... Look for a fresh topic soon...Probably not going to be until sunday nigh though..Work and Racing are in the way to do it properly..Like I stated before I collect these cars and I have all 3 new ones in my possession. So we are gonna talk about it ALL with pictures...... I want to discuss pricing, Royalty fees, Quality and design for starters..  

Lionel,
Where is the "Maintainence-free motor with On/Off switch?
Nothing but "Dummy" cars!

It's sad because the Santa's Sleigh car is has very nice graphics. 

wiz posted:

Big Jim posted:

I'm surprised a bigger stink hasn't been made over these non-illuminated aquarium cars! I, for one, hope that everyone returns this junk and Lionel has to eat them all for Christmas dinner! 

As soon as I get a free minute I'm going to make a big deal about it..... Look for a fresh topic soon...Probably not going to be until sunday nigh though..Work and Racing are in the way to do it properly..Like I stated before I collect these cars and I have all 3 new ones in my possession. So we are gonna talk about it ALL with pictures...... I want to discuss pricing, Royalty fees, Quality and design for starters..  

Hello WIZ.........

I believe this would be a GOOD idea to help others not to make a purchase mistakes by letting the other forum members be aware of this.   Maybe Lionel will clean up their act after this gets loud enough.  The pictures of the actual production product will speak 1000 words and show the insides of those cars with pictures would be a very big help.   I am looking forward to seeing the pictures too.

"Give to others, and you will receive.  You will be given much.  It will be poured into your hands - more than you can hold. You will be given so much that it will be spilled into your lap. The way you give to others is the way God will give to you." Luke 6:38 ERV (Easy to Read Version)  * NOTE.. I was correcting my mistake about the bible, I am sorry guys and gals" 12/8/16*

Tiffany

This really reflects poorly on the person stateside who is responsible for the new aquarium car offerings.  It's not as if the overseas factories CAN'T do a better job.  But they need to be DRIVEN to do a better job.  One of the best Lionel mint cars ever produced came out of the LCCA several years ago... the Texas Special Mint Car w/diamond load.  The lighting effect used in that car is spectacular!  But I'm sure the late Lou Caponi had a lot to do with insuring the car was produced/developed with that top-notch feature... and that it was done properly! 

David

I had an old Gil Finn car so I swapped out the base and put the Disney car on it.  Wanted to make the grandkids happy. Not perfect, but will do until I pick up a roller assembly for the other base and add some lighting.  As others have mentioned, whoever(or is it whomever?) decided to let these cars out the door in their barebones condition has given a black eye to Lionel.  I wonder - any correlation to the MR situation? 

I sent the Santa's Sleigh Aquarium Car I purchased back to the dealer. I was considering keeping it even though it was gear driven as I really like the graphics, but the lack of lighting was the deciding factor. The lighting is one of the more charming aspects of aquarium cars.

I don't mind no motor, but no light what some crap. I just picked up this car to add to my Disney train. Now I will have to fix Lionel's crap mistakes. I don't want to return it cause I really like the paint and graphics but this is garbage. 

I just received the 2016 Christmas Aquarium car for a birthday present, per my request, expecting there to be a motor, & for it to be illuminated. It went straight back to Charlie Ro's, where I exchanged it for last year's "Winter Wonderland" car.

Shame on Lionel.

Are you guys kidding me? No light? We need two big #57 bayonet bulbs behind each window like the old days! I would send that 2016 Xmas Aquarium right back.

I have written Lionel, c.c.ing Charles Ro, where the car was purchased, expressing my disappointment.

Here is my son watching the sleighs on the Winter Wonderland car go around and around while the train sat in neutral. Magical moments like this are what make trains great, and are not possible with gear-driven and/or unlit cars.

I expressed my displeasure to Lionel for giving their customers the shaft again, but as usual, no response. Hey WIZ, what happened to your "big deal"?

The only thing different between this and the "Greenie-stick-em-a-windows" fiasco is that this would be an easy fix.

With these items clearly being labeled with specific features and priced in the catalog accordingly, Lionel should be offering partial rebates with proof of purchase.  I'm not holding my breath.

Then again I guess there is that standard disclaimer, but this is clearly them cheaping out rather than typos since it's a change from recent similar cars and also affected multiple units in the same catalog.  I seem to recall within the last few years they may have marked a steam engine as having whistle steam and then it didn't when produced.  I wasn't one of the people who bought one of those, so I don't recall the model where that happened.

-Dave

So am I hearing that everyone that has contacted Lionel through letters emails and phone calls have not heard anything back from them on this that is just not acceptable. I think if I had anything on pre-order with them right now I would cancel it until I saw the finished product come out and saw the reviews on it.

Joe Gozzo

Also makes me wonder if Mike Regan is aware of the issue and what they might be doing to correct it this leaves a huge question mark in my mind about any future orders for something as simple as this. It makes a person wonder what other corners may be cut, on lower end items.

Joe gozzo