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At the risk of wearing out my welcome after getting so much assistance regarding my random chuff problem on my Southern Mountain, I ask the following question:

My 2006 6-11103 Southern PS-4 is my favorite locamotive.  Perhaps because my grandfather a conductor on the Southern RR back in the early 1900's, makes me partial to this one.  This is a Cab-1 Odyssey system.  How can I upgrade this engine to have the same level of realization as my Legacy systems?  More specifically, despite making every possible setting changes in my Legacy controller program for this engine, it does not have the same level a precise speed steps allowing for a realistic slow start.  Instead it engages quickly with a sudden jerk to start rolling.  The same is true when trying for a realistic stop, it steps down as it slows but reaches a point where it just stops.

I have removed the motor to make sure the flywheel and shaft are tight, and other than a small amount of lash going to the driver main gear, everything seems snug.

Perhaps I am splitting hairs here, but I have other Legacy systems from the Southern RR and would love to have my Crescent Limited run to the same realizem.

Any ideas?

Randy

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Randy,

Sounds like your engine has the "Odyssey lurch" that was prevalent with many early boards. You can search this forum for many topics.  Sometimes replacing the Odyssey board will solve the problem (if Lionel still makes one), however you still have just 32 speed steps as compared to the Legacy 200.  I have found the ERR cruise M retrofit is the best solution for this issue.  It fits in the same space as the original board, uses most of the same connections, and gives you 100 speed step control.  The existing RS board stays in place and is not affected by the upgrade.  If you decide to go this route make sure you order the Cruise M steam board.  Good luck!

Bruce

 

For that locomotive, you don't have to do a total replacement.  Go to ERR  at This Page and order the following item.

 Cruise Commander M Kit - Steamer kit (all versions)

It's a fairly simple install and you'll have 100 speed steps and no more Odyssey Lurch.

Of course, if you want some other Legacy-Like features, consider adding my Chuff-Generator for 4-chuffs/driver rev and optional ground lights.  Then you can use my Super-Chuffer to give you great chuffing smoke, smoke at idle, Rule-17 headlight operation, and automatic cab light control.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Hi John,

I'm sold on the ideas you have suggested and would like to implemment them.  I assume ordering both the Chuff-Gen and the Super-Chuffer through the Henning's site is your site?  I read all of the directions and everything seems pretty clear.  One question, what are ground lights?  I am guessing they are lights that illuminate the bottom of the train during idle and serve as working/maintenance lighting?  If I recall, the PS-4 has an incondesent bulb for the headlamp.  Can you make a suggestion on a source for ground lights LED's and Front lamp if not an LED?

I discussed the controller board with Ken at ERR.  He confirmed the Cruise Commander M was the correct board.  I was a little confused which on to buy whenb i saw three listed on the ERR site.  Thanks John for the specifc details as to the correct board to order.

Excited to do the upgrades and glad to learn there are improvements i can make to my favorite engine.

Thanks,

Randy

Ground lights are lights under the walkway on a steamer.  If you've seen locomotives like the Vision Line Big Boy, they have them.  They are on when stopped and at slow speeds.  When you reach 10-12 scale MPH, the lights go off.  Of course, in the prototype 1:1 world, they're manually controlled by the engineer.  The Chuff-Generator has an output to energize them when stopped and until you reach approx. 10 scale MPH, then it turns them off.

I made myself a little .031" thick set of lights, and I cut these apart and glue them under the walkway.  I drill a tiny hole for the wires through the boiler and wire them to track power on one end, a current limiting resistor, and to the Chuff-Generator ground light output.

As far as the headlight, I just use a 3mm flangless warm white LED for that task.  The Super-Chuffer powers that single LED headlight directly.  The LED gives you a FAR brighter and more realistic headlight than the wimpy bulb that is used in those models.

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I buy them in bulk on eBay, I use them all the time in upgrades, so I have to keep stock.  When it comes to lighting things with LED, I have all the bases covered, white colored, flashing in various colors, flickering, slow color changing, etc. Sizes are 1.8mm, 2mm, 3mm, 5mm, and larger.

ERR has a very limited selection.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

John,

Do the LED's you run for Rule-17 need a specific voltage to avoid premature dead bulbs? Normally I don't use the Rule-17, but since the headlight housing on one of my engines - the MTH Blue Comet - is too small and skinny for the 3mm's I usually purchase, I decided I would purchase a 2mm from DigiKey and give the Rule-17 a try this time.

Gents,

I have received the Cruise Commander M, Chuff-Generator and Super-Chuffer, so started my upgrade this weekend.  I decided to upgrade just the Cruise Commander first before adding the Super Chuffer and Chuff Generator.

Well, I have encountered some problems and just sent Ken at Electric RR an email.  As I wait for a response, I include my email to Ken below in the event some of you perhaps can offer some suggestions.  The manual I reference in the email is on line at ERR for the Cruise Commander M.

Thanks, Randy

My email:

Hi Ken,

I received  the Cruise Commander M and attempted the installation.  I am installing it into a 2006 6-11103 Southern Odyssey PS-4 Pacific 4-6-2.  Because this system has the Odyssey control system, I followed the example in the CC "M" installation manual titled "Lionel SD-80 with Odyssey" as it seemed to be the closest match to the current installation in the 11103 train.
 
As of now, the unit responds to the Legacy controller but goes from zero to full speed.  During the installation I noticed some differences, so before making any assumptions I wanted to get some directions from you and your team.
 
The differences and/or questions are as follows:
 
1 - the original J1 Connector from the original installation only has three wires; Pins 1,2 and 4 - leaving pin 3 open.  All of your examples show four wires for J1.
 
2 - Like your instruction suggested, I plugged the 2 pin connector from the Odyssey switch to pins 5 & 6 for the ICSP location on the board, despite the fact that it is a 6 pin receptacle on the board.
 
3 - For the J4, I cut the wire you labeled in your manual as "CHASSIS" that is on pin 10; resulting in no connection for pin 10 in the Cruise Commander M installation
 
4 - For J4, there is a blue wire going to pin 1 that goes to a wire nut where it is spliced with several other brown wires; one that seems to go back to the base board for the R2LC.  However, there is no connection for pin 2.  In the other example that did not involve an Odyssey controller titled "Lionel SD-60" there are instructions to run this Serial Data Wire to pin 24 on the backside of the R2LC board.  In some Odyssey systems, there seems to be connection made for both Pins 1 and 2 for the J4.  Is there additional connection I need to make for pins 1 and 2?
 
Other than what I have mentioned above, everything else seemed to be straight forward.  As a note, the engine seems to respond to the Legacy controller normally with sound responses etc, just goes into high gear with no speed control once you initiate it to go from the throttle.  Note also, the polarity for the motor is correct so the high speed dash will happen both forward and reverse directions; just no speed control.
 
Randy

For all the installations I do with the CC-M, I have never needed pin 2 of the 10-pin connector.  I did fool around with it once to see what happened, but it doesn't actually output usable serial data, not sure what it's outputting.

The top suspect for taking off is that pin 1 of the CC-M 10-pin connector isn't connected to pin-24 of the R2LC (serial data).  Also, if you didn't get the newer CC-M labeled Diesel and Steam, you may have a problem driving the wireless tether and the CC-M, the serial data isn't strong enough to drive both of them with the older CC-M versions.  I had to add a serial data buffer to some installations with the older CC-M to solve this issue. 

In this diagram, RailSounds Serial Data In goes to the IR tether or the RailSounds board in a diesel installation.

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GGG,

Referencing the instructions on page 3, I have the original two receptacle plug in position pins 6 and 5, with pins 4 thru 1 exposed.  I used the process defined on page 14 in the instructions and my connection is the same as illustrated in the bottom picture on that same page.  I have not toggled the switch since I made the mods suggested earlier by John; can try that.

Randy

 

The following is the response from Ken at ERR to my original email above:

The Cruise-M was made for a certain type of Lionel engine, and that did not include Odyssey.  Since then Lionel has produced many versions with Odyssey, and in typical Lionel fashion they are all different.

Pins 1 & 3 on the J1 board are both 5 volts and are common on the board.

I don't know what you have on pin 1 of J4.  One thing for sure is it definitely needs the 10-pin connector with the serial data wire from the R4LC as shown on page 10 of the instructions.  That is serial data and causes the engine to run away when not present.  Wire on pin 2 of j4 is not used.

When using a Legacy controller be sure to enter the engine as a Cab1, not Legacy.

Because they are all different there is no standard answer I can give you.

Ken 

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