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I have been purchasing pretty much all of my stuff from one dealer.  I have found an item available for less from another, dealer.  Mainly because I missed the original pre-order deadline.  My question for dealers is, would you want the opportunity to price match for a customer or would you rather the customer just purchased it from another dealer at the lower price?  Would it make a difference to you if the item is a pre-order or an in stock item?

 

Also, for the buyers, do you ask your dealer to price match or do you just purchase at the cheaper dealer?

Last edited by jpcommons
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It would depend I would say on how much the difference is. By the sounds of it the lower price is not the same as the pre order level. If the dealer says no and you get it elsewhere then you have salvaged something on a price reduction, but I suspect that your loyalty will still see you return back to your favourite supplier and remember to keep an eye on the last date for pre order pricing

I agree with Passenger Train Collector. I support my LHS as much as I can, which is probably 90% or so of my train purchases. They are a small, local shop, it helps them remain in business and gives me a place to visit and see and talk trains. When I have a problem or need help with something, they support me in return. This is all more important to me than saving a few bucks here and there.

I have a local dealer that I do all my pre-orders from.  (I won't mention their name, but their initials are "JusTrains".)  For older items that may no longer be in stock that they do not have, I have a couple other local shops I check with.  Failing that I search other out of area dealers I've had good business dealings with.

 

It seems to me that pricing isn't all that much different across the board with most of the bigger dealers.  When you're spending $400 for a locomotive anyway, a couple bucks savings isn't that much of a difference plus the additional shipping costs from a few of them, especially if the item is one you crave and desire.  I prefer buying local as I always get good pricing and excellent service.

 

 

I let the owners of the few local shops (within 75 miles) I have a relationship with know I'm aware of prices and services available elsewhere. It's my way of keeping them honest and preventing them from taking my business for granted. May the Lord protect any of their employees who make the mistake of letting me walk out without opening my wallet because they didn't recognize my attempts to remain loyal to the local brick and mortar proprietor.

The owners know I'm not gonna beat them up over price and don't expect them to undercut internet pricing, though there is some negotiation. But they also know service, honesty and attitude are points where I'll be less forgiving.

Originally Posted by Matthew B.:

I let the owners of the few local shops (within 75 miles) I have a relationship with know I'm aware of prices and services available elsewhere. It's my way of keeping them honest and preventing them from taking my business for granted. May the Lord protect any of their employees who make the mistake of letting me walk out without opening my wallet because they didn't recognize my attempts to remain loyal to the local brick and mortar proprietor.

The owners know I'm not gonna beat them up over price and don't expect them to undercut internet pricing, though there is some negotiation. But they also know service, honesty and attitude are points where I'll be less forgiving.

Just my opinion but if you've got to tell or remind the store to "be honest and fair" perhaps you need to find somewhere else to shop. 

 

I shop at one local store only, despite there being another one of the "same calibre" about 1/4 of the distance away. That closer store however has an owner who is SO impossible to deal with and SO incredibly rude and surly. Why go further? They are honest, GOOD people, who make you feel welcome. Sadly, they want to retire and their store, a well known one and often mentioned here, is for sale but we all hope and like to think they'll be there forever. 

Last edited by SJC

I have always done all my pre-orders and "big" (over $600) loco and rolling stock set purchases from a single dealer - initially an LHS here in Carolina and now that they have retired one of the advertisers here that is providing reasonable prices and superior service.  Smaller stuff, particularly if under $50, I tend to buy when I see it available where-ever that is, from who or whatever site/local store.  

I learned the hard way what happens when you shop price instead of using a reputable dealer:

 

1) Used instead of new

2) Previously repaired stuff

3) Broken and rattling parts in box

 

What you save in price is negated by the costs of shipping back to the culprit, stress, and the fact that what you bought was not what was advertised.

 

I only buy from Trainworld, Nassau, Marios Trains, and Patricks Trains.

I'm confused. There isn't necessarily a difference between "reputable" and "shopping price". I know that during all the years I bought from Kirke at Justrains, he was very reputable and always had one of the best prices.

 

A $200 difference is a significant difference. Assuming it isn't a blowout (do we still have them?), the less expensive dealer is an option I would seriously consider. And definitely consider if "reputable". If it is a dealer that has a history of problems, then the $200 wouldn't motivate me at all.

 

Gerry

 

Last edited by gmorlitz

Agreed.  I have only purchased from two dealers so far.  Both forum sponsors.  One was way back when I was doing G scale.  The other has been getting my business now that I have switched over to O.  As far as I know, I don't have any local hobby stores.  Although Jeb from Megasteam said that one had opened up in Manasas recently.  That is still quite a ways away from me.  I might have to stop by and take a look when I am out that way for apple picking this weekend.

Originally Posted by gmorlitz:

 

A $200 difference is a significant difference. Assuming it isn't a blowout (do we still have them?), the less expensive dealer is an option I would seriously consider. And definitely consider if "reputable". If it is a dealer that has a history of problems, then the $200 wouldn't motivate me at all.

 

Gerry

 


It is not a blowout.  This is a preorder for the vision line big boy.  Both dealers are forum sponsors.  Both seem to get high praise from all that have used them.  I probably won't get the big boy.  I don't really have the space for it.  At the same time, I really like the looks and sound of it.  I do have 072 track.  Just not sure how this thing would look going around the curves.  I keep going back and forth on this item.  I guess there is also the possibility that even if I preorder now, I might not get it because I technically missed the cutoff date.

Last edited by jpcommons
Originally Posted by Passenger Train Collector:

I think that in the long and short run, you are better off sticking with a reliable dealer. You build a relationship and can count on them to deliver what you ordered. We all seek the lowest price, but this should not be the only consideration.

jpcommons,

If in fact you've been a dedicated customer and the dealer knows this, reread the post by PTC a few times. It does not hurt to ask the dealer. Odds are the dealer will do the best they can. 

Originally Posted by jpcommons:
It is not a blowout.  This is a preorder for the vision line big boy.  Both dealers are forum sponsors.  Both seem to get high praise from all that have used them.  I probably won't get the big boy.  I don't really have the space for it.  At the same time, I really like the looks and sound of it.  I do have 072 track.  Just not sure how this thing would look going around the curves.  I keep going back and forth on this item.  I guess there is also the possibility that even if I preorder now, I might not get it because I technically missed the cutoff date.

Actually the VL BB prices looked like blowouts to me from the start, when you consider the MSRP as the starting point. They started selling them at $700-$800 off list from the beginning. Steamer pricing and layout size leaves me behind, I only buy diesels and try to stay under $500 each. However, that is starting to become more difficult with the last couple of catalogs. My LHS does give me a pretty decent discount for a small shop though. Prices eliminated me from steam long ago. Gotta try to stay within my budget, at least as much as possible. That one Big Boy would get me at least 4 modern diesels if I stayed within my budget limits. I will have to agree with you that $200 is a pretty substantial savings though and that would be a tougher call for one to make.

Originally Posted by gmorlitz:
... Assuming it isn't a blowout (do we still have them?), the less expensive dealer is an option I would seriously consider. ...

 

Blowouts are DEFINITELY out there.  Just check around.  I make it a point to regularly browse Charlie Ro's "super sales".  But be warned it's a dangerous practice, with which my wallet is all too familiar. 

 

 

Originally Posted by rtr12:
...

Actually the VL BB prices looked like blowouts to me from the start, when you consider the MSRP as the starting point. They started selling them at $700-$800 off list from the beginning. ...

No, no, no.  That was all part of the lure of Lionel's new overly inflated MSRP policy.  Street price for the Big Boy should have been just a shade over the street-price of the recently announced Lionel Y6b (which is coming in at $1400 give or take a few $$$).  There's nothing in the Big Boy that justifies a $600 street-price premium over the Y6b.  Enhanced steam blowdown effects and a depleting coal load, yes.  But $600 more?  Absolutely not.  There is really no other conclusion to draw once you can get yourself past the Vison Line badge.

 

Now back to the topic of pre-order price variations... I expect that we'll continue to see cases where pre-order pricing anomalies do occur though.  And they'll be pretty easy to spot.  For the most part, the dust has settled around the 25-30% off MSRP for pre-order pricing of Lionel's newest product announcements.   More importantly though is how much margin dealers are still working on at those price points, and that's largely an unknown except for those "in the business".  But suffice it to say, they're still making a healthy profit or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

A prime example of a pre-order anomaly???  Here ya go...  I was literally shocked the other day when I received an email newsletter -- from another OGR Forum sponsor -- offering 10-15% off MSRP for Lionel 2014 Volume 2 pre-orders.  Yes, that's right... 10-15%.  REALLY????   Are they living on a different planet?    For something like the Y6b, that equates to an almost $300 additional cost at the smaller discount off MSRP compared to what most of the dealers have posted already.  

 

What am I missing here?  Unless they just happen to order some extra "on spec" for dealer stock, so they'll eventually be the "only game in town" when other dealers sell out... what kind of strategy is that, now that most folks who want these gems are likely shopping for the best pre-order price from reputable dealers?  Perhaps they know something about BTO that further reinforces my thought all along that Lionel's entry into BTO has all just been something to generate the buzz factor.  After all, we know MTH and Atlas-O have been BTO (for portions of the product line) all along.

 

Never ceases to amaze me...

 

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
Originally Posted by SJC:
Originally Posted by Matthew B.:

I let the owners of the few local shops (within 75 miles) I have a relationship with know I'm aware of prices and services available elsewhere. It's my way of keeping them honest and preventing them from taking my business for granted. May the Lord protect any of their employees who make the mistake of letting me walk out without opening my wallet because they didn't recognize my attempts to remain loyal to the local brick and mortar proprietor.

The owners know I'm not gonna beat them up over price and don't expect them to undercut internet pricing, though there is some negotiation. But they also know service, honesty and attitude are points where I'll be less forgiving.

Just my opinion but if you've got to tell or remind the store to "be honest and fair" perhaps you need to find somewhere else to shop.

 

That's why I have a relationship with those local hobby shop owners. We know each other and I don't have to remind them how to do business. When I say I let them know I'm aware of prices and services available elsewhere. That's not reminding them how to conduct their business or to be honest or fair. It's part of developing a business relationship and being forthcoming and honest as a customer. It lets the shop owner know I'm not just an impulse one time buyer. Maybe the owner has a few limited special deals he can offer that wouldn't be wasted because he knows he has the opportunity to create repeat customer.

Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by rtr12:
...

Actually the VL BB prices looked like blowouts to me from the start, when you consider the MSRP as the starting point. They started selling them at $700-$800 off list from the beginning. ...

No, no, no.  That was all part of the lure of Lionel's new overly inflated MSRP policy.  Street price for the Big Boy should have been just a shade over the street-price of the recently announced Lionel Y6b (which is coming in at $1400 give or take a few $$$).  There's nothing in the Big Boy that justifies a $600 street-price premium over the Y6b.  Enhanced steam blowdown effects and a depleting coal load, yes.  But $600 more?  Absolutely not.  There is really no other conclusion to draw once you can get yourself past the Vison Line badge.

 

Now back to the topic of pre-order price variations... I expect that we'll continue to see cases where pre-order pricing anomalies do occur though.  And they'll be pretty easy to spot.  For the most part, the dust has settled around the 25-30% off MSRP for pre-order pricing of Lionel's newest product announcements.   More importantly though is how much margin dealers are still working on at those price points, and that's largely an unknown except for those "in the business".  But suffice it to say, they're still making a healthy profit or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

A prime example of a pre-order anomaly???  Here ya go...  I was literally shocked the other day when I received an email newsletter -- from another OGR Forum sponsor -- offering 10-15% off MSRP for Lionel 2014 Volume 2 pre-orders.  Yes, that's right... 10-15%.  REALLY????   Are they living on a different planet?    For something like the Y6b, that equates to an almost $300 additional cost at the smaller discount off MSRP compared to what most of the dealers have posted already.  

 

What am I missing here?  Unless they just happen to order some extra "on spec" for dealer stock, so they'll eventually be the "only game in town" when other dealers sell out... what kind of strategy is that, now that most folks who want these gems are likely shopping for the best pre-order price from reputable dealers?  Perhaps they know something about BTO that further reinforces my thought all along that Lionel's entry into BTO has all just been something to generate the buzz factor.  After all, we know MTH and Atlas-O have been BTO (for portions of the product line) all along.

 

Never ceases to amaze me...

 

David

Well, new MSRP policy or not, they are pricing themselves right out of my budget. I realize some dealers are giving BIG discounts, but I try to support my LHS and don't purchase much from the big guys, only hard to find items or stuff my LHS can't get. Fortunately I don't have or plan to have any steamers, only diesels, so I'm off the hook for the really big ticket items.

 

I understand they are trying to make us think these things are worth a lot more than they are, but it doesn't help make them affordable to people that might otherwise purchase one. I hope they are not starting a trend among all manufacturers as my train purchasing will be reduced in quantity as the prices continue to increase.

 

The 10%-15% discount might be all the small shops can do? As we have discussed before, the larger dealers seem to be getting a much larger discount form the manufacturers while the LHS still has to go through a distributor. They may be feeling a good hard pinch like the rest of us. This does not seem to be helping them any, and possibly making things worse? From talking to my LHS, I don't think they will be stocking as much Lionel as they once did? Also, that means less for me to look at from Lionel on my weekly visit to my LHS. So it goes, I guess.

 

The one that got to me the most was the GP30 for $650 that MTH will probably sell for maybe $429 for a Premier version. 10%-15% off that one at $650 is even worse. Still puts it at $550 or so with 15% off. Fortunately Lionel seldom makes anything in my chosen road name, so that also helps. I am getting quite a few engines in my stable now, so I won't need as many in the future.

 

Originally Posted by rtr12:
...

 

The 10%-15% discount might be all the small shops can do? As we have discussed before, the larger dealers seem to be getting a much larger discount form the manufacturers while the LHS still has to go through a distributor. ...

 

That's the kicker here.  This was NOT a small mom-and-pop shop by any stretch of the imagination.  It's a large store that typically sells at MSRP as standard operating procedure once products ship.  

 

Whether they'll continue doing that with Lionel's latest over-inflated MSRP's is anyone's guess.  But for now, they offered 10-15% discount for ore-ordering with them.  So perhaps they'll continue selling stuff at MSRP if they order some items for store inventory.   I don't think this market can sustain those prices though.  As much as I like the Y6b, I'm nit interested in plunking down $2K for one, nor would I pre-order one for $1700 when other very reputable, long-standing dealers have it on pre-order for $1400.  

 

As I mentioned before, holding out for MSRP may have worked when MSRP's were more reasonable AND market demand would lead late buyers in search of any store that had the item at any cost.  But pre-ordering with a delta of hundreds of dollars?  I just don't get it.  

 

Ironically, we've already seen a couple mom-and-pop stores (right here on the forum) either matching or coming darn near close to matching prices that the big national dealers have advertised for pre-order.  And as I've been pointing out here, this is the beauty of BTO from the LHS standpoint of competing for pre-order business in the market rather than waiting for sales "on spec" after Lionel ships product.

 

So it begs the question why any store would announces higher pre-order prices that stick out like a soar thumb.  Even if this dealer has other lines of business to support "the big picture" while the toy train business is more of a casual distraction for them...  I just don't get it.

 

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

When I was a teenager and modeling HO, I could walk or ride my bike to my LHS (and there were quite a few around town). Now there are only two LHS that I know of in town that carry O-gauge. Both are 20+ miles from my house, and my truck get 12 miles/gal. Occasionaly, I take a trip to the closest one. I have purchased most all my track from them, but only one engine and a few cars.

 

The internet has made shopping at home just too convenient. The pricing competition is unbelievable, and for now, I don't have to pay sales tax. 

 

I know that I am just another one of those consumers that has contributed to the closing of LHS's. In the last 20 years there are 3 LHS's that have closed that were relatively close to my house. 

 

But if I had a LHS in a somewhat close proximity, I'd give them the benefit of my business, providing they could supply, especially large dollar items (Legacy), within 10% of an internet store price.

As a dealer I try to be aware of pricing trends and try to be the best priced or competitive. I will always try to match or beat anyone's price if possible . While I appreciate the support of loyal customers. I also feel you have to work to provide the best pricing you can. Lets face it we all only have so many hobby dollars to spend . We want the most we can get for them. I focus on overhead and try to buy when their are specials. This will give my customers the best price and allow me to stay in business. This applies to pre-orders and in stock items..

Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by rtr12:
...

 

The 10%-15% discount might be all the small shops can do? As we have discussed before, the larger dealers seem to be getting a much larger discount form the manufacturers while the LHS still has to go through a distributor. ...

 

That's the kicker here.  This was NOT a small mom-and-pop shop by any stretch of the imagination.  It's a large store that typically sells at MSRP as standard operating procedure once products ship.  

 

Whether they'll continue doing that with Lionel's latest over-inflated MSRP's is anyone's guess.  But for now, they offered 10-15% discount for ore-ordering with them.  So perhaps they'll continue selling stuff at MSRP if they order some items for store inventory.   I don't think this market can sustain those prices though.  As much as I like the Y6b, I'm nit interested in plunking down $2K for one, nor would I pre-order one for $1700 when other very reputable, long-standing dealers have it on pre-order for $1400.  

 

As I mentioned before, holding out for MSRP may have worked when MSRP's were more reasonable AND market demand would lead late buyers in search of any store that had the item at any cost.  But pre-ordering with a delta of hundreds of dollars?  I just don't get it.  

 

Ironically, we've already seen a couple mom-and-pop stores (right here on the forum) either matching or coming darn near close to matching prices that the big national dealers have advertised for pre-order.  And as I've been pointing out here, this is the beauty of BTO from the LHS standpoint of competing for pre-order business in the market rather than waiting for sales "on spec" after Lionel ships product.

 

So it begs the question why any store would announces higher pre-order prices that stick out like a soar thumb.  Even if this dealer has other lines of business to support "the big picture" while the toy train business is more of a casual distraction for them...  I just don't get it.

 

David

I have to agree, not much of this makes sense to me either? I guess they think some folks will pay whatever they ask as long as it has the correct name and box color? I guess we will just have to wait and see how it all goes.

 

As for the mom and pop stores trying to match pricing, don't know how they do it unless they are really larger than we realize? They must have something going for them that my LHS does not have? My LHS has told me they can't buy some items for what some dealers are selling them for. They no longer order any of those items for the store. I think they are mostly down to the less expensive starter sets from Lionel.

 

I like Lionel, MTH and Atlas all about the same with no specific loyalty to any one or the other, so it looks like pricing will become a much bigger factor in my future purchasing. The name on the box or box color is not that important to me, I like al the boxes and their colors. They all used to be pretty close to the same MSRP's for similar products. Hopefully the others don't try to follow too closely with all this increased pricing.

 

I am probably not going to do the Big Boy.  I think I will probably end up pre-ordering the Y6B.  I was looking at both of these and was trying to justify the extra $600-700.  I was thinking the blow down steam, included sensor track, the lcs power supply (already have it), depleting coal load (I don't care for this feature), then the extra speaker might be why it was more expensive.  To me, I don't think those features are worth the extra cost.  I am sure others feel differently.

 

Then comes the money factor.  I already have quite a bit on pre-order set to arrive by the end of this year.  It will be nice to not add another $2000+ to that amount.

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