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Mark Hieger and I have been working with Ron Bashista, owner of American Models, since last summer to produce heavyweight passenger car sets for the FlyerChief Frisco Meteor Northern locomotive Lionel shipped at the end of the year.  I am happy to say that Ron has these sets in production and will begin to take orders on the 27th of February.  Do not contact American Models before the 27th as he is not prepared to take orders and ship till then.

When I interviewed Ryan Kunkle, of Lionel, at York last April for the S Gaugian he said Lionel was not going to produce cars for the engine.

Mark has supplied information about the cars and their colors to American Models so that Ron could paint and letter them appropriately.  I supplied information about the colors of paint Lionel was to use on the engine and explained to him why Lionel was not going to produce matching cars for the locomotive.

American Models is only going to produce 50 sets.  There are 5 cars per set as with his other heavyweight sets. The cars are baggage, railway post office, combine car, coach, and observation car.  The price will be $340 plus shipping.

Please remember not to place an order for the set till February 27th.

Last edited by Rich Melvin
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No pictures available and I don't know when there will be some to post.  I won't have any till my set has been received.

Mark sent American Models photos he got from online sources to be modeled for the set.  I am sure that they will be as close to the real thing as possible.  They will all have 6 wheel trucks just as Frisco used.  That has added $10 to the cost.

There will only be 50 sets made so if you have interest I would be talking to American Models on the 27th before they are gone.

banjoflyer posted:

 

I'm sure Ron will do an outstanding job on these cars. The Frisco purists may "poo-poo" the types of heavyweight cars Ron has as not exactly  matching the Frisco cars of that type (believe me I heard it all while doing the research). I'm not such a purist. I am thankful for all the help I received from Frisco aficionados on the internet.


 

I know I get hung up on something oversized or undersized, but I'm somewhat flexible when it come to length.

The Lionel/Flyer heavyweight cars wouldn't be much more accurate either.  I'm not sure they even have a specific prototype.  The AM cars are pretty nice, and with 6-wheel trucks under them, they look even better:

AM coach six

Sometimes, ya gots ta go with whats ya gots, particularly in S.  There are guys that wouldn't buy the AM Budd's because they're not full length.  They're holding out for proper full length cars.  They're still waiting since 2001...

I think you guys will have a winner on your hands.

Rusty

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Cocker: Frisco may have had a number of colored coaches on its Meteor train, but I don't want red behind this engine on my layout.  Do You? It's a blue and white engine.

The reason why Lionel isn't making passenger cars was written by me earlier here and in the S Gaugian.  Lionel uses two separate companies, one to make the engines and the other to make cars.  The minimum order for cars is much larger than engines.  Lionel didn't want to have bunches of extra car sets with no engines for them.   

Bill, Now that you reminded me of that statement, I remember it. This is also probably why they didn't do the previously announced passenger sets. This is why outsourcing and JIT production and inventory control are not always the best system for "Short run" production, as most of the AF line is. Not to preach, but "in the old days" ACG would run a mold and have lots of shells on hand to store. If, say, you want to make 300 sets of ABC railroad passenger cars, they would set up the paint & finishing lines and produce them using shells on hand. In some ways this is more efficient than the JIT production system. Usually the cost of storage is offset by the reduction in per-piece molding costs. However this assumes the product is being made "In house" and planning and stock-on-hand information is readily available. This is also why shared trucks were used, truck production might be this week, body production next week, etc. etc. This is also why ACG used the same pieces to build different items (motors, for example). Nowadays we have to wait our turn in the production line and then the plant is making THAT item. Afterwards, only the tooling is stored (if it isn't destroyed). Of course, I may be all wrong; what do I know??

I just talked to Ron Bashista at American Models and he is getting orders for the Meteor passenger sets.  They are coming fast and early.  He didn't remember how many. but he was real happy with the number. Remember he is making just 50 sets.  $340 plus shipping for 5 cars.  An extra car with a separate number is available.   

I would recommend you getting on board with an order if you want a set.

He said the cars aren't ready to ship yet but will be pretty soon.

Let's see: Request for product, August 2016 (or thereabouts), announcement of product, January 2017, Likely delivery March 2017--7 months. I think that has to be a record for modern times. I think Ron needs to be highly praised for this production. I don't have one of the matching engines, or I'd be on the "Must have one" list too!
traindavid posted:
Let's see: Request for product, August 2016 (or thereabouts), announcement of product, January 2017, Likely delivery March 2017--7 months. I think that has to be a record for modern times. I think Ron needs to be highly praised for this production. I don't have one of the matching engines, or I'd be on the "Must have one" list too!

Same here.  I've been a fan of American Models for years, and Ron is a member of our club, the Southeastern Michigan S Gaugers.  His big advantage in getting things out is most of his production is here in Michigan.  No waiting for a "slow boat from China".  He's done a few convention, spree and fest cars for us and many others. 

traindavid posted:
Let's see: Request for product, August 2016 (or thereabouts), announcement of product, January 2017, Likely delivery March 2017--7 months. I think that has to be a record for modern times. I think Ron needs to be highly praised for this production. I don't have one of the matching engines, or I'd be on the "Must have one" list too!

I would guess Ron has, say about 50 sets of undercoated 5 car sets (plus an undisclosed number of undec coaches) in stock and it was a matter of preparing artwork and scheduling with his painter. 

No BTO here, it's OTB (order to build.)  Number 51's going to be crying in his smoke fluid...

This is going to be a really nice train for you guys that order it.

AM's done a number of Fest and Spree cars and as far as I can recall, nobody's ever had to wait until after the event to get their car, except for one time when AM was contracted as a last minute replacement supplier when another one had to bow out.

Rusty

Yes, he had unpainted cars to make this set.  No production just painting.  I had to send him the tender of my Frisco Northern so he could match the colors to be the same as Lionel delivered.  Still, it only took about 7 weeks to get it done.  

When I talked with him today the paint job was in progress.  None are ready to ship.

He said mine would ship first so when I get them I will post photos here.  I hope around March 1st.

 

 

Well, as I discussed (in another thread, I believe), one of the advantages to making product "in house" is that when you "run a mold" it is more cost effective to make more product than you will need AT THAT POINT and store the extras "on the shelf." (molding 1000 pieces is almost the same cost as molding 500; per piece cost though is almost one-half)  Of course, this means you have to have shelves with space to store them (space is money), and you have to keep track of them too (that's not so hard nowadays with computers). This is what ACG did. One day the line might be making freight car trucks; well, you make "bunches" of them as the machinery and the people are 'jigged up" (politically incorrect term now) to do that job. Into the bins they go, so when tank cars, or flat cars or whatever are on the assembly line, the trucks are all ready to go on.  This is just the opposite of JIT (Just In Time) production and inventorying used nowadays. But, for a long-term product line it can be more economical to do. It also allows one to respond to unexpected market demand. It is also why so much of ACG production used shared components.

This kind of thinking runs counter to "modern" production ideas, but, as we have seen here, it allows one to meet an unforeseen product demand. In this case, it is a win-win. We get cars to put behind a neat locomotive, Ron gets accolades for producing them AND income (I hope!), and uses up some inventory. Of course, the downside is that he will have to make more car body parts the next time he wants to create another passenger set. But on the upside, he probably gets some more loyal customers (Loyal customers, what an antiquated idea!).

Ron might say, "no big deal," but for "the other guys" who are locked into modern production overseas, it IS a big deal. For example, I am still waiting for my S-Fest Root Beer cars--I'm sure I'll get them, but it's a long wait!  I'm told it is because of a miscommunications with the production manager in China. In Ron's case he just walks over to the production floor and says, "Hey, where are those cars??" (Actually, Ron is probably the production manager, so he just talks to himself--err, uh,. . Never mind. . . .)

Now Ron, about that Daylight 4-8-4. . . . .(you have the correct cars to run behind it!)

The thing to remember is that Ron at AM isn't a miracle worker, he just appears that way  because he normally doesn't announce until his products are at least in transit. 

From what he told me a couple of years ago is he now makes the trains here, but sends them off to China for decorating.  (Now, I don't know if it was just locomotives or everything.  He didn't specify.)There wound up being about a 4-5 month delay for the T&P sets because of the west coast dock strike back then.

Plus, the car I mentioned earlier was the 2012 Fest car, a Soo Line gondola.  I took pictures of mine the day it arrived in March (I double-checked now that I'm home) 2014.  So, he had to start from scratch to supply these cars, which gives us a rough idea of how long the cycle is.

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque
I had heard he sends them to China for decorating, but I can't believe someone can't do it here--the shipping costs have to add quite a bit to the decorating costs. Maybe it's that good paint can't be had here due to environmental regulations. Where Ron is a "miracle worker" is that he apparently understands the S market better than "the other guys." And he has production control close by, not clean across the globe. One of the things that happens when stuff is made "over there" is that they send you a pre-production model to check, and then when you approve it, someone over there thinks he/she has a better way of producing it and the production run isn't quite the same as the sample--creating problems! With Ron, the guy on the line says, "what if we do this?" and Ron can immediately say, "That idea is NO good!" No problem! Outsourcing is not always (actually seldom is) the best way.

Have ordered my set. My Hats-off to Ron for making this set. Have spoke to him on many occasions about train conversions using his trucks, motors and drive systems. He will always say will or won't work on pactuliar project im working on. A very good supplier for our hobby   Will answer all gyrations with-out having to talk to a tech.  He is his company's tech.  After we lost SHS in our hobby who else sells a product that can give you a owner to customer phone conversion

Now THAT's an "On the spot report"! I'm guessing the cars don't require the ultra small fine printing that locomotive builder's plates, etc. do. I still say this is a remarkable response to a product request. I wonder what the folks over at "Big L" are thinking?? Maybe they aren't paying any attention. . .
traindavid posted:
Now THAT's an "On the spot report"! I'm guessing the cars don't require the ultra small fine printing that locomotive builder's plates, etc. do. I still say this is a remarkable response to a product request. I wonder what the folks over at "Big L" are thinking?? Maybe they aren't paying any attention. . .

Lionel will probably decide in two years to make Meteor cars...

Rusty

Ron has the ability to do painting here, but the more complicated schemes are sometimes best done by those who specialize.  That's the case with the new RS-11s.  When my club talked about the Detroit and Mackinac cars for our event, we showed it to Ron and his foreman, Joe, and they said that although it could be tough, they could handle it in house.  The result was as good as any I've seen.  From Joe's comments at the time, the tough part was getting the maroon and white to look the same over different undercoat colors.  It looks OK to me!

So the paint scheme for the Meteor, not being that complicated, should come out just as nice.  It almost makes me wish I had bought one of Lionel's Northerns.

It's also a treat to visit his facility.  He has the space to store extra stock, and seeing shelves and shelves stacked with various shells and chassis is like visiting a candy factory!  BTW, he's in the process of moving to a larger place...  I wish him the best.

Oh, and David, I don't think that "jigged" up is all that wrong.  As you know, in a factory, jigs and fixtures are used all the time.

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Roundhouse Bill posted:

News Flash..... 

I just heard that Ron told one of his dealers that he was only making 30 sets.  If you want one it may be time to hurry.

THEORY: Maybe that's to protect the individuals who ordered direct.  After all, how would you guys feel after all this effort if the dealers sucked up all the sets?

Or, he could have orders for 20 sets already.

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The dealer was Doug Peck and now Doug reports via email to me that the first batch is sold out.  Doug says he might make more later in the spring. That shows demand is good for these cars.

Lionel probably made hundreds of the engines and they sold out quick.

Second batch?  Wow.  Sounds like the boys at Circle L missed the train.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:
Roundhouse Bill posted:

The dealer was Doug Peck and now Doug reports via email to me that the first batch is sold out.  Doug says he might make more later in the spring. That shows demand is good for these cars.

Lionel probably made hundreds of the engines and they sold out quick.

Second batch?  Wow.  Sounds like the boys at Circle L missed the train.

Rusty

Not the firSt time....

Last edited by poniaj

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