"S Scale is a Craftsman's Scale & has a Scratch builder's mindset"

    That don't mean we like it that way, it just means no one will build stuff for us to buy. I'd rather have tons of ready to run stuff available that be forced to make everything myself. The fact is S is a size that is very handy to work with and there's no reason products would sell just as well as they do in the less handy sizes if someone would just start producing them. HO, N, and more recently On30 scales started from nothing so why can't S grow from it's modest base? ......DaveB 

The crack about ten modelers in TT cracked me up.  There is a whole lot of stuff NOT

made in O, as well as in S, TT, of course, the narrow gauge versions of about any

scale, and in HO when I was in it, and, I bet now, when so much of HO is now current

trains, with a lot less steam era available.  If scratch building is of interest, or, worse yet, not, there is still plenty of it required in any scale, depending on your interest.

"The crack about ten modelers in TT cracked me up."

    European TT modelers must be laughing their numerous caboose's off too :> ......DaveB 

Now, now boys...  Play nice...

Berliner was poised to enter the US market with US models in the early 1990's, then the factory mysteriously burnt down.

Rusty

I'm well aware of the Eurppean TT market. I was writing about American prototype modelers, as I'm sure most of you knew When reading my post.

Jeff C

Obviously not every single thing that ever ran on rails has been made, even in HO scale. Perhaps we can agree on that and move on--without trying desperately to dredge up more examples of a classic false equivalence argument?

Jeff C

It isn't necessary to scratchbuild anything in S if you are willing to work within the constraints of what is available.  

It is perfectly easy to build a branchline operation with an SHS Consolidation and rolling stock appropriate for the late 1940's and 195O's and appropriate scenic elements are easily available.  You can do a creditable job with mainline railroads of the 40's and 50's as long as you are selective as to what aspect of the railroad you want to model.  (Model a few depots , some towers along the mainline and a few lineside industries, put a staging yard on each end, model everything in between as sparsely populated countryside, run mostly through freights, through passenger trains and a once or twice a day local and it is doable-you can fill your basement with the NY Central between Rochester, NY and Syracuse, NY )

You have to scratchbuild only if you start out with a concept which requires a product that doesn't exist in S or if you are unwilling to put up with "close enough".

If you tailor your concept to what is available, it is not that hard, and the good part is that you can change your concept as new product becomes available.

My way may not work for you, but it keeps me sane and it also keeps me from overspending on my hobby.

Little Tommy

And you can substitute ANY other scale for "S" and that statement is equally true.

A thread about not being able to scratch build is the silliest thing I've ever heard of!

Simon

Oh please don't tempt us, we can be much sillier without even trying hard.

Little Tommy

The problem is the constraints are much tighter in S. 

There is really only one "open stock" company in S today, and that's American Models.  Even at AM, some items have been out of stock and are not likely to reappear. (USRA Pacific's, for one.  The SD60's may not get a chance for a second run either.)

Sure there's the secondary market of "da bay" and various S events, but that's not a way for a scale to grow.

I've been fortunate that over the past 30 years, I've gotten most of what I needed and a lot that I didn't need from the primary sources. 

However, if you told me as a shiny new person I'd have to get what I need mostly from the secondary market, I'd have stayed in HO.

Rusty

"However, if you told me as a shiny new person I'd have to get what I need mostly from the secondary market, I'd have stayed in HO."

   Yeah, it's hard for newbies to learn the special charms of S scale size models when they can't easily see or buy anything locally. When I got interested in S it was because SHS had just made their new PS2 hopper models and my local train shop stocked a few. At that time seeing the new S stuff from AM and SHS  we thought it was inevitable that S would grow. It's still hard to believe that somehow a scale like the fanciful On30 could be created from nothing and prosper while S couldn't, I guess the difference was Bachman has deep pockets and was not afraid to make models to create more demand instead of making folks pre-order and wait for them......DaveB  

Very well said Jeff.  Thanks.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

daveb said:

"I'd rather have tons of ready to run stuff available that be forced to make everything myself."

Here here! That's ONE of the primary reasons for me going back to HO: Time vs projects. 

Sure, I WANT some "do it yourself" projects... but not for almost ALL of the desired engines to require a good deal of kitbashing, repowering, etc, just to have an engine that was fairly common in the prototype world.  I already have a bunch of "do it yourself" kitbash/paint/decal engine projects stockpiled in HO... but I have far more HO RTR engines that just needs some weathering thrown on 'em to make 'em layout ready.

Colorado hirailer said:

"I bet now, when so much of HO is now current trains, with a lot less steam era available."

Not actually. I've been blown away with the QUALITY steam that's been recently made available and more on the way. Some of Broadway Limited's stuff is jaw dropping, as is MTH's steam offerings. 

As for "modern era": The "Transition" and "Classic" era's are still the biggest markets.
 

Rusty said:

"The "scratch builders" mindset."

True that. When I broke the news to the Yahoogroups S scale list that I was going to make the return to HO, I was pretty much hastily ushered out the door with a "Hmmph. REAL modeler's model in S scale."  

Ah well... I'm having a lot of fun again with model trains now that I'm back in HO... and the fun factor is the bottom line for me, not the scale.

Play nice, now everybody!

Somewhere around 1986-87 I started building this reefer. 

I gave up on it loooooong before SHS tantalized us with their wood reefers:

I'm surprised I haven't liberated the couplers off of it.  Even more surprised it hasn't fallen apart by now...

I really don't have a scratchbuilder's gene.  Fortunately, there were other things in S at the time to occupy my interests (like AM) otherwise my tenure in S would have ended early.

Rusty

Rusty,

You may think you don't have the genes, but the pictures don't lie.  Your work looks pretty darn good to me.

PHM

That had not gone unnoticed, although S Scale America/Des Plaines Hobbies has cars that are acceptable era-wise.

Rusty

Don Thompson tried very hard to do exactly what you asked--and I wonder where S scale would be today if he hadn't been derailed by the Great Tooling Debacle...

Product drives the hobby market. If a manufacturer suddenly decided to release a line of high quality American TT product tomorrow, it would change everything about that scale--and TT would experience unprecedented growth. 

Think about it. Suddenly the big negative about TT scale, the fact that it is stuck right in the middle between HO and N scale, would become a positive--because the scale would grow by picking off modelers from both of those established scales. It would still be a minority scale, but at least for a time there would be rapid growth. On30 provides a case study for this.

There is no reason that the same thing couldn't happen in S scale. 

Jeff C

That BerlinerBahn stuff almost makes a guy want to switch gauges........again! 

I didn't say they were a perfect fit.  

Along with the CoalPorters, Pullman Standard and FMC boxcars, they are closer era-wise to the SD70's and ES44's than almost anything else currently available in S.  And a lot closer to the era than the Flyonel cylindrical hoppers and cancelled 57' mechanical reefers.

The SSA cars sure beats pulling wood billboard reefers or recycled Gilbert behind the SD70's & ES44's.

Rusty

Think E7, RS1 and 4-6-0...

Rusty

"Somewhere around 1986-87 I started building this reefer."

   Haha, your post reminded me that I have one too. Can't recall what year I started it but it's old school cardboard sides that I had a print shop reduce from O scale to S scale. I'll probably finish it one of these days, especially if I decide to model the 50's on my new layout...DaveB