shelf couplers&operating groundthrows

Alan,

 

Definitely interested in the shelf couplers, like the Sergent Engineering offerings in HO. 

 

Primary Interest would be

 

Lower Shelf E

SE upper and lower shelf E

F

SF upper and lower shelf F

 

Are you going for a more compatible shank, operation with Kadee scale couplers, or strictly Protocraft?

 

I would be interested in the ground throws.

 

ChipR

 

I use the Caboose Industries HO ground throws for all my turnouts, both O standard and On30.  Lou Sassi had a short article in MR a few months ago doing the same thing.  In addition to this, I mount a micro switch underneath on a little pad that the Ground throw ties are glued to that control the polarity of the frog. 

 

IMHO these are way oversize for HO and look perfect on an O scale turnout.  They are very sturdy and have plenty of throw and oomph for my code 100 rail. I'm sure they would work with larger rail. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of how they look and work.

 

Peter

 

 

Alan,

 

Great timing on your post!  I'm certainly interested in double shelf couplers...and need 10 pair at least. 

 

The main industry on my switching layout receives vegetable oil in the new Atlas 25.5k tanks.  I've lowered the truck bolsters and they look great...except for the lack of safety shelves on the standard Kadees.

 

Kudos to Jim Lincoln for having the patience to construct a prototype out of brass.  I wonder if the upper/lower shelves themselves could be designed as separate detail parts and printed via Shapeways...then added to the coupler?

 

I get the pleasure of switching tank cars everyday, so let me know if you need any photos or details     Jack

 

 

 

Thanks Jack for the suggestions&help.I suggested to James the idea of separate attachments for the shelves myself. His fear was that gluing those parts might allow glue to seep into the coupler itself &stop the knuckle or pin action. Then of course is the human angle of just plain knocking them off by human hands. He's working with Protocraft brass couplers as his model. But making the shelfs separate would allow modelers who use kadee's to have the shelfs for their couplers without changing over to Protocraft's. I've got some Protocrafts on order&they look great xcept for the "lightening holes," on the non-knucke side. These look too long to me. The couplers from San Quan Car Co look like the modern E coupler. Jim doesn't know yet if these couplers can be produced because of cost&if there'll be a market for them. His picture of his formed shelfs using a protocraft coupler were great,he had a lot of knowledge&patience.
I got to have shelf couplers&some type of visual targets with my Caboose Industry ground throws to make the change to O for sure. I been in HO for 30 years plus& begged for these things&finally got the ground throws & shelf couplers,both E&F designs-must sound crazy but just can't do without 'em.
I got ideas for a ground throw that'd be great for a lot of modelers I believe. I understand most fellas use undertable machines to throw their turnouts,but there's a lot of us "manual" fellers too. I had a stroke in 2012 that I recovered from ok,but ended my working days&being Epileptic for 46 years,made it impossible to buy my med's&pay into Social Security at the same time,so they tell me I didn't pay in enough at the right time to collect diisability,so my ideas would have to be taken up by some company or individual with the resouces.
What is "Safeway"? This sounds great your idea glad for the info. I'm new at the forum,but will do my best to add updates on this idea. If we get enough positive feedback a company might even take this up.
Thanks again,Alan

Thank you Peter for your kind help&would love to see pic's. Do you fasten your ground throw on wood blocks,then cut holes in the headblock ties to fit around the Caboose throws? I saw this done&it lowers the throw handle so it looks like it's just above the ties as a prototype throw arm looks. If you use an HO throw,that'd allow me to bring my 210s stands with the moving targets over from HO. That'd cut the switchstand cost almost totally,plus the search for targets. Do you have any ideas for a "sliding derail," to protect runaway freight from entering the mainline?
Thanks again,
Alan

so my ideas would have to be taken up by some company or individual with the resouces.

 

I understand.  What you need is an investor - some money behind this project.  Take deposits, and when you get enough bucks, hire a good pattern maker and go for it.  There are several lost- wax companies that will cast short runs of parts from your masters.  Having a desire for a part is generally not enough to get somebody else to do it for you, and once you have a thousand orders, I am sure you can make it happen.

 

You might ask Protocraft how much profit is in the coupler business - those are great couplers, and I use them on my very best models, but I doubt they break even.

Thank you Bob2,that helps,gives us insight,possibly my friend Jim already knows this or possibly has the resources himself. When I joined p48,I posted about the lack of couplers &switchstands plus other things&Jim was the 1st to agree100% with me. He also said O Scale products have to be aimed at O guage in general,not just made for a particular faction like p48 which I'm sure ruffled a few feathers.
Protocraft hardly breaks even on lots of projects like you said,even takes some losses to further the cause of O Scale&to help modelers. When I 1st saw Proto's couplers advertised I sent an email to them just like I posted at the p48 group&Norm,the head of the group,replied he read my letter with interest. Even Atlas is aware of the lack of the safety shelfs for tank cars. In HO,I took this need up with Kadee&it took a couple years,but they finally came out with both an F&E coupler with the safety shelfs.
Frank Sergent brought out the 100% models of both the E&F couplers,plus the H Tightlock,in investment casting&he puts out great models. Yes,I emailed Frank too,but he didn't forsee any shelf couplers in O&pointed me back to Protocraft or San Quan Car Co.
Thanks again for your input Bob2&to everyone that's given their ideas on this subject.
Alan

Mr Hummel,

 

I have just installed one on the edge of the roadbed so one can see both the top and bottom.  I will photograph and post them shortly. 

 

Peter

Mr. Hummel

Well, as is usual, each forum has it's own way to add pictures and this one I can't begin to understand.  When I go to "insert image" it asks for the picture's  "url".  Huh?  I have no idea where to find this info.  I think it means it's location.  Well I know it's in a folder called Switchstand in my Pictures Main folder/directory.  All other forums have a browse button and lets you look in your folders, pick the picture and post it.  Some are as simple as copying a picture from your folder and pasting it right into your reply.

Sorry.

If you want to send me a PM I'll send the pictures to you and YOU can post them if you think others may care.

peterebherron@gmail.com

Peter

If memory serves, the latest on line issue of O Scale Resources has an article on using the Caboose Hobbies HO ground throws on an O scale switching layout.

 

Allan

 

Sent to your e-mail.  Can anybody ell us how to post a picture on this forum?  Thanks,

 

Peter

When you click "post reply" a pop up windowed box will appear for your text. Below that box you'll see several lines of text.  Note the green + with "add attachments" next to it.  Click on that and another box will come up.  Note in the upper left is a faded "file chooser".  Click it and you can browse the files on your PC for the picture(s) you want to upload - much in the same way eBay lets you browse and select photos. hope this helps

 

Ed Rappe

You have two methods to posting a file, e.g. photo, movie, document, etc.  The simplest way is to click "Post Reply", then go to the bottom of reply dialog that pops up and click the "+" sign with words "Add Attachments", then a warning will come up saying that there is a 100 MB limit to the file size, then click on the "Upload Files" link to proceed.  This will open "File Explorer" on your computer for which you can navigate to the file on your hard drive you wish to upload.  Then select the file(s) you wish to upload (you will see the file names you have selected) and when you are done, click "Finished" and return to the reply dialog. Click "Submit Reply" and your message with attachments will be posted.

 

Option #2 is to use the "Insert/Edit Image" tool button.  This will allow you to post an Internet link (URL) to where the file you wish to share resides, e.g. photo, video, document, etc. on an internet sharing site, such as Facebook, Flickr, Snapfish, YouTube, etc.  In order to use this option, you must first upload the file you wish to share to one of these file sharing sites and just copy the internet link to that file into the URL box.  Then type in some description and title information for the file so everyone knows what the file is about and that's it.

 

As Red Green says, "It's just that easy".

 

Scott

Austin, TX 

Hey, it works!!  I completely didn't see that little tiny box that opens the browser!!  I can't be the first one to miss it.  I'll post the rest when I go downstairs to the "Main" computer.

 

Thanks, you 2!

 

Peter

Here is what an HO high switch stand looks like with O scale figure and rolling stock.  These are just right for O, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 

Peter

Peter: THank you so much for the pictures they're really nice. I hope to use the same day target configuration on whatever configuration of switchstand-target combination I might come up with. However I use ground throws where the throw handle rests close to the ties. The pictures I received from you are all high level switchstands. I thought you meant you had some ground throws.
Did you hand lay your track&switches? Nice track&everything you've got there looks great! Did you hand paint your crewman? I'm trying to find modern day train crews with safety jackets&hand held radios,but no such luck.
I'll probably use Atlas switches-do you have to wire their frogs?
Thanks again,
Alan

Alan,

 

Here are some pics of the same principal but using the ground throws.  I have not installed any on the layout but the HO are pretty close to scale in O.

 

 

This is On30 (HO) scale track.

Shows the micro switch under the pad.

 

I don't know anything about the Atlas switches as they are too expensive for me and the rail way too big.  I make my own with Fast Tracks jigs and use code 100 for Standard Gauge and 70 for the On30.  With a bit of practice I now can make a turnout in 40 minutes or so for a lot less $$ than an Atlas.  IMHO better looking, too.

 

Peter

Alan, earlier in the week there was another topic about the tall switch stands. The general consensus was that for 2 rail the HO Caboose version would work.

 

That narrows the demand to just the 3 railers, and then only a small subset of that group. The only people who would have any interest are those who use manual Ross or Atlas switches. As much as I would love to buy some, I don't think it would be a good investment from a business perspective.

Thank you, would still like to see a more prototypical ground throw,no disrespect to Caboose Industries,come on the market. I use all Caboose Industry throws with moving targets in HO,so that's actually good news for me,as I can just move my current stands over to O Scale.
Thanks again,
Alan

I don't know if this is in any way helpful. We are using Caboose Industry O sprung ground throws on our Ross switches with Gargraves fkex track.
I just went out and took a picture of a "real" ground throw in my back yard. Might be interesting.
I enjoy this topic.
John

Thank you for the input&picture.
This photo is exactly what I'm talking about. I have NEW CENTURY ground throws in my back yard&also a RAILROAD PRODUCTS ground throw.  The latter is connected to a sliding derailer. The counterweight on my NEW CENTURY,is of the same configuration,while the Railroad Products Throw's counterweight is completely different.
If we O scalers could get a ground throw with moving targets that would be neat to say the least. In HO,the Caboose Industry model 210S&109R have rotating targets that are turned with the throw handle&move the turnout points at the same time,but no ground throw on the market in any scale,meaning O,HO or N,has ever been developed that looks like your photo. Stands have been developed with targets that turn when using a under table switch machine,but never anything like your photo. I'd post photos but this old computer won't seem to upload photos.
All of my ground throws use bevel gears inside the housing,to move targets&points,or a derailer. That would be the ticket,but ifa "gear" like Caboose Industries uses were used,withe the target assembly  between the switchstand&points,much like the 210S in HO scale,but more prototypically designed like in your photo,that'd be great.
I was also thinking if the counterweights could be molded in different designs for different raillines,that'd be really great.
Thanks again.
Alan

Alan,

I forgot I was posting about this subject here.  I made a short video about the switchstands and placed it in the post about the Fast Tracks system.  Here it is in case you didn't read that post.

 

Peter

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be

 

Thank you for the video.
What I'm looking for is a ground throw with moving targets,not a high level switchstand. 
I don't understand how the high levels in HO will operate an O scale turnout,while the 210S ground throw with supposedly the same amount of travel as the high level,won't move the O scale turnout points.(?)
Thanks again,
Alan

Alan, what kind of Turnouts are you using? 

am experimenting. Tried an Atlas wye. Am seriously considering looking at Ross 072 or #4's. 

I am very very confused.  By saying Ross 0-72, I have to think 3 rail, right?  I don't think any Caboose Ground throw has enough oomph or throw distance to "bend the iron" of a 3 rail turnout!

 

Peter

I'm sorry,I thought I was talking 3 rail scale. I just tried a 3 rail scale 072 wye. Am not impressed with the Atlas #5 manual turnouts points in photos I've seen.They seem to be to thin on the rails leading up to the very ends of the point. I never have been able to hold 1 as most Atlas stock is all backordered. I was&may still go 2 rail,it's just all diesels seem to be 3 rail,as well as rolling stock. 2 rail just isn't accessible. The cost of  a 3rl diesel I'm told will cost me $240 to a GP15 Atlas that already costs $289. I only have 1 3 rail turnout at this point,&am all ears as to the reasons to go 2rail vs 3. I've heard both sides&am open to all the advise you can give me.
Thanks Again,
Alan

Alan,

Read my past 2 posts on tight radius curve and Fast Tracks construction all 2 Rail.  There is plenty of 2 rail stuff around, you just need to look for it. 

 

Peter

Hi Jack,it's been a long time since I posted this.

Since then,Jim Lincoln has drawn a New Century Adjustable,meaning it could be ready for the next stage of development.

I took this ground throw project another step further.I have a Railroad Products Ground throw&a new Century Adjustable. I opened up the Railroad Products stand as the bevel gears on the inside are simple gears wheras theNew Century Adjustable's design is more complex as their design is made to adjust for overtravel which I think could kill the project in O Scale. I sent him full page photos of the workings on that stand as well as of a sliding derail I bought. He has his own company that produces O scale furnishings called Redcliff Miniatures.

He's interested in pursuing the ground throw idea,derail,&shelf couplers. I think the shelf couplers would be the easiest project as the design for the shelf's is all that's really needed,unless they do a completely new model. He's going to a train show in September which will kind of put these projects on hold,until afterwards. If he needs photos&measurements,could you get those for us after work sometime? By "us," I mean you,me,him,&every modeler that wants these couplers. These,if produced,will be like the Protocraft working couplers. I'll contact Jim&see if he needs info&get back to you.

Between my 2 friends,the shelf couplers are 99% a certainty;the ground throws represent a challenge but in looking at the parts,it's really not that complex.

Thanks again,

Al

If someone mentioned the following above I missed it.

 

Anyway, I tried the Caboose HO ground throws on one of my Atlas O #7.5 2 rail turnouts.  It did not have a big enough "throw" to secure it in both positions.  It does work with a friends scratch built Proto 48 turnouts which require less throw.  Maybe I'm missing something here in aligning them to the Atlas O turnouts?

 

  Would be great if I could make it work.  As we all know the O scale ones are way out of scale.

 

And the answer is yes to the ground throws part of the original question.