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Southern Pacific FM Trainmaster

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April 11, 2013 2:13 AM

Southern Pacific FM Trainmaster 2 rail, one of my favorite diesel locomotives.

Like to build a pair, can't afford $3k each for brass, thinking of starting with

a Williams or Lionel unit and converting to 2 rail DCC w/Sound, looking for help

and suggestions?

 

ncng

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 6:24 AM

Hi, ncng.

 

MTH has released an upgraded version of the Train Master as part of its Premier Line. This model far surpasses the "traditional" Lionel and Williams O gauge plastic TM models in terms of detail and prototypical accuracy. I should mention Lionel released a very nice model with upgraded details painted in F-M's demonstrator scheme as part of its Century Club offerings at one time. There have been subsequent offerings decorated for other roads - DL&W and Wabash come to mind - using this tooling but they appear to be few and far between.  

 

With its new model, MTH has shown great care to include features correct for specific roadnames and offers scale wheeled versions suitable for two rail operation, at least in certain roads if demand warrants. I believe this would be your best option for an accurate two rail non-brass model although you'll have to wait for the SP version from MTH. K-Line as well released something of an upgraded Train Master a number of years ago although it is not as well detailed as MTH's current model.

 

I hope this information has been of some help to you. I have a few photos of my MTH Central Railroad of New Jersey TM which I will post later. They should give you a good idea of how nicely detailed the new model is. 

 

Bob   

 
Last edited by CNJ 3676 April 11, 2013 6:47 AM
 
 
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April 11, 2013 7:32 AM

I also agree that the recent MTH Trainmaster is the best detailed model available, after the C&LS version. If you're patient, find a 2 rail version and all you'd need to do is swap out the electronics.

 

I recently purchased the DL&W version in 2 rail and am on the hunt for a second unit.

 

 

I am John Galt !

Chris

 
 
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April 11, 2013 8:49 AM

Here's a link to a thread I started when my new MTH Train Master arrived. There are pictures and it addresses the model's qualities, positive and negative, in more specific detail.

 

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/d...nt/12270977826232078

 

Bob

 

 

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 12:02 PM

If you are on a budget, the K-Line will serve well. At a distance of three feet you cannot tell it from brass, and I got several for a hundred bucks each.  The NWSL kit to 2- rail it was $35 at the time. A fairly easy conversion.

 

This one was SP, but it got shortened and repainted:

 

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 12:04 PM

The C+LS model is amazing - been trying to find the road number 4812 and even offered up a Factory Painted Virginian in trade - with no luck . The VGN seems to be the ''Holy Grail'' among the C+LS TM's , but the Black Widow isn't far behind .

          Regards,

          Bryan (k27bry@yahoo.com)

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 12:13 PM

NCNG

 

MTH hasn't offered their new Trainmaster in SP yet.  Maybe it will be in the next catalog.  If so you can have an SP Trainmaster with DCC out of the box.

 

The catalog will be online next week.  We'll find out then.

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 12:43 PM

I agree - bang for buck, the new MTH should be a winner.  So it is $150 for an acceptable scale TM converted, or $600 for the MTH, or $2000 for the Bultmann beauty.  The decision might hinge on available funds.  That is often how I set my hobby priorities.

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 12:51 PM

Hey Bob - I wish the C+LS TM's were 2K ! - and that you could actually find them !

          Bryan

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 4:06 PM

I may be mistaken, but didn't Car Works do the Trainmaster.  Or was that only the Baby Trainmaster (H15/16-44).

 

Michael Rahilly

Eastampton, NJ

 
 
 
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April 11, 2013 4:18 PM

Michael - I believe Car Works did the Baby - Sunset did the TM in brass - not as nice as the C+LS version , but a good model .

          Bryan

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 3:40 AM

Thanks Bob! I have heard that MTH did a scale 2 rail version, but forgot about and never heard how much better it was then the Lionel and Williams versions.
Let the search begin!
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by CNJ 3676:

Hi, ncng.

 

MTH has released an upgraded version of the Train Master as part of its Premier Line. This model far surpasses the "traditional" Lionel and Williams O gauge plastic TM models in terms of detail and prototypical accuracy. I should mention Lionel released a very nice model with upgraded details painted in F-M's demonstrator scheme as part of its Century Club offerings at one time. There have been subsequent offerings decorated for other roads - DL&W and Wabash come to mind - using this tooling but they appear to be few and far between.  

 

With its new model, MTH has shown great care to include features correct for specific roadnames and offers scale wheeled versions suitable for two rail operation, at least in certain roads if demand warrants. I believe this would be your best option for an accurate two rail non-brass model although you'll have to wait for the SP version from MTH. K-Line as well released something of an upgraded Train Master a number of years ago although it is not as well detailed as MTH's current model.

 

I hope this information has been of some help to you. I have a few photos of my MTH Central Railroad of New Jersey TM which I will post later. They should give you a good idea of how nicely detailed the new model is. 

 

Bob   

 

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 3:43 AM

Thanks Chris, the C&LS version is out of my budget, the MTH version is what I am going to begin a search for, Southern Pacific, I will keep my eye out for a DL&W for you.
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by PRR Man:

I also agree that the recent MTH Trainmaster is the best detailed model available, after the C&LS version. If you're patient, find a 2 rail version and all you'd need to do is swap out the electronics.

 

I recently purchased the DL&W version in 2 rail and am on the hunt for a second unit.

 

 

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 3:46 AM

Thanks Bob,
 
I think the MTH option is the best for me, I need to begin the search.
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by bob2:

I agree - bang for buck, the new MTH should be a winner.  So it is $150 for an acceptable scale TM converted, or $600 for the MTH, or $2000 for the Bultmann beauty.  The decision might hinge on available funds.  That is often how I set my hobby priorities.

 

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 1:25 PM

Before we leave you to the MTH search, you really should examine the K-Line offering carefully.  I put the K-Line side by side with a Sunset brass, and the major deficiency is how one joins the end steps to the body for 2-rail.  Other than that, visually they were equivalent.  MTH is indeed better, but not 3x better.  Opinion.

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 9:22 PM

Thanks Bob,
 
Did you change the end steps?
What do you order from NWSL to convert?
Thanks,
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by bob2:

Before we leave you to the MTH search, you really should examine the K-Line offering carefully.  I put the K-Line side by side with a Sunset brass, and the major deficiency is how one joins the end steps to the body for 2-rail.  Other than that, visually they were equivalent.  MTH is indeed better, but not 3x better.  Opinion.

 

 
 
 
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April 12, 2013 9:27 PM

They sell a kit.  It comes with wheels, axles, spacers, and directions.  You may need their puller.  All I did with the ends was screw the bottom steps on permanently.  Made me happy, but it would probably drive the 3-rail scale crowd nuts. I know they have incredible heartburn with handrails that stop too high on the ends.

 

I did machine some brass coupler pockets - a very big deal made simple with an end mill.  Wood shims would do fine.

 
 
 
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April 13, 2013 12:58 AM

here are some pictures of my 2 rail MTH DL&W trainmaster.

P7302623

P7302624

P7302625

P7302627

P7302628

P7302629

P7302630

P7302631

P7302632

P7302633

P7302634

P7302635

 
 
 
Photos (12)
P7302623
 
 
 
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April 13, 2013 10:52 PM

Nice model Pete.

especially ncng if you're solely looking for an acceptable looking DCC-able model these are goodt if you're wanting a fine scale FM H24-66 you may want to look for the Custom NJ version which I believe has the dual headlights the of the SP's fleet.

Curious if you're actually modeling the SP, per wanting two; they generally ran as singles for most of their entire life in commuter service after 1956, replacing steam on the SF to SJ corridor. They did serve in the black widow scheme in freight service before in New Mexico.

 

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 9:27 AM

Pete,

How easy or difficult was it to put KD's on the loco?

Thanks,

Ed

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 10:21 AM

ed,

 

the 2 rail version is designed for kadee couplers, just the regular 2 screws.

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 11:10 AM

I also have the K-Line Trainmaster.  I got it at Western Depot.  I see that they still have one left.  It is a conventional Trainmaster in the SP Black Widow livery.  It's $199.99.  Matt

B & B RR's New K-Line FM Trainmaster

Admiring the New Beast

Trainmaster with Fast Freight

 

Railway termini are our gates to the glorious and the unknown. Through them we pass out into adventure and sunshine, to them, alas! we return.
Edward M. Forster

 
 
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April 14, 2013 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by DL&W Pete:

here are some pictures of my 2 rail MTH DL&W trainmaster.

P7302623

P7302624...

Nice photos (I like outdoor/natural lighting photos). If/when MTH does a scale-wheeled Trainmaster in CNW livery, I'm definitely in!

 

Matt Jackson
"The best service you can provide for the hobby is to pass on what you have learned."

 Angels Gate Hi-Railers
San Pedro, California

"Moving freight and passengers from Point A to Point A for over 9/50 of a century!"
E-mail

 
 
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April 14, 2013 8:44 PM

Bob2,
 
I already have the puller, if I go this way, what you charge me to make the brass couple pockets for Kadee 805's? 4 pockets for 2 locomotives.
 
Thanks,
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by bob2:

They sell a kit.  It comes with wheels, axles, spacers, and directions.  You may need their puller.  All I did with the ends was screw the bottom steps on permanently.  Made me happy, but it would probably drive the 3-rail scale crowd nuts. I know they have incredible heartburn with handrails that stop too high on the ends.

 

I did machine some brass coupler pockets - a very big deal made simple with an end mill.  Wood shims would do fine.

 

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 8:50 PM

atlpete,
 
Yes, they usually ran as one on SP, I am modeling the SP beet trains on the coast line, they ran the them back to back. (Although my layout is Roseville to Cape Horn!)
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by atlpete:

Nice model Pete.

especially ncng if you're solely looking for an acceptable looking DCC-able model these are goodt if you're wanting a fine scale FM H24-66 you may want to look for the Custom NJ version which I believe has the dual headlights the of the SP's fleet.

Curious if you're actually modeling the SP, per wanting two; they generally ran as singles for most of their entire life in commuter service after 1956, replacing steam on the SF to SJ corridor. They did serve in the black widow scheme in freight service before in New Mexico.

 

 

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 9:09 PM

Excellent, I am fascinated with the SP and how modelers approach it from a time-frame/period, schemes, passenger svc. etc, it was all iconic, even into the 90's. And not that easy to do well either.

Look forward to that seeing beet train. Are there cars available that match the one's for that service? Would think that might be a project unto itself?

Also if you have a photobox or some-such where you post your work.

Thanks

Pete

 
 
 
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April 14, 2013 10:12 PM

I don't make stuff professionally.  It gets hideously expensive really, really fast.

 
 
 
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April 15, 2013 9:21 PM

Lousy picture of the K-Line.

 


The glaring error is the end steps, where they are double.  I never notice.



The fans actually operate, and you can see them thru the grille on the top back.  Trucks are one- piece, but credible.  MTH has real springs.


the problem with the photos is our lack of sunlight last several days.  Best I could get.  Hope they help.  I have one each SP, Lackawanna, and Milwaukee.  Very pleased.  About $250 invested in all three.

 

 
 
 
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July 18, 2013 1:19 AM

Bob2,
 
What are item #'s from NWSL that you ordered for K-Line conversion to 2 rail?
 
Thanks,
 
ncng
 
Originally Posted by bob2:

If you are on a budget, the K-Line will serve well. At a distance of three feet you cannot tell it from brass, and I got several for a hundred bucks each.  The NWSL kit to 2- rail it was $35 at the time. A fairly easy conversion.

 

This one was SP, but it got shortened and repainted:

 

 

 
 
 
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July 18, 2013 1:35 AM

Don't remember.  Raoul sent the first set compliments, then I bought three more special order so I could have all one polarity per unit.  I am sure NWSL could help you.

 
 
 
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July 18, 2013 7:14 AM

I recall Espee did several GP-9's with silver ends/ orange stripes on both ends. 

 

Were any Trainmasters done with the same double end paint scheme?

 

Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall. Torque determines the size of the hole you make.


 
 
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July 18, 2013 9:34 AM

I may be mistaken, but didn't Car Works do the Trainmaster.  Or was that only the Baby Trainmaster (H15/16-44).

 

Michael Rahilly

Technically, the H15/16/44's are NOT baby Trainmasters. Bayby trainmasters are

H-16-66's for MILW, TVA, and CNW.

 

I have a 3 railed PRR painted  C&LW H-15-44 that can be easily 2 railed if anyone is interested...

 

 

FS-CW1

 

FS-CW2

 

FS-CW3

 

FS-CW4

 

FS-CW5

 

FS-CW6

 

 

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

 
 
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July 18, 2013 9:44 AM

I put the K-Line side by side with a Sunset brass, and the major deficiency is how one joins the end steps to the body for 2-rail.  Other than that, visually they were equivalent.

Actually, the real deficiency of the K-line model is the missing "small Air tank " Air Brake equipment rack found on the cab side of the Fuel tank. the Recent Lionel CCII and MTH Premier versins have this missing detail. otherwise the K-line for it's price point has the other scale details that make this rolling brick stand out.


For the SP details, the K-line version will NOT have the dual headlight on the long hood nose of the unit.


 

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

 
 
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July 18, 2013 1:16 PM

Well, I am an SP nut, and I would never have noticed those things.  To me, the biggest K- Line deficiencies were the wheels and couplers, and I fixed them.  Secondary was that when the pilots were modified and attached, I still had a double thick step at the interface.  Far more noticeable than a headlight, but not noticeable enough to me to fix.

 
 
 
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March 9, 2014 11:39 PM

I have yet to do this project, a pair of Southern Pacific FM Trainmasters, 2 rail DCC with sound. Did MTH ever do these? Still K-Line best option? more suggestions?

 

Thanks-nng

 
 
 
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March 10, 2014 9:07 AM

I ordered the 2 rail SP version from MTH.  It comes with DCC and is in their new catalog.  I ordered through just trains of Deleware.

 

J2M

 
 
 
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March 10, 2014 12:02 PM

Southern Pacific FM Trainmasters, 2 rail DCC with sound. Did MTH ever do these?

Yes, MTH Catalog No. 22-20380-2. In the current 2014 Volume 1 catalog, due July 2014.

 

Here is some info from the MTH Product Finder:

FM Trainmaster Diesel Engine With Proto-Sound 3.0 (Scale Wheels) - Southern Pacific (Black Widow)

Cab Nos. 4800, 4802 & 4803

Product Number: 22-20380-2
M.S.R.P. $ 479.95
 
More details are available on the MTH website, using the Product Finder.

 

 

 
 
 
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March 11, 2014 12:24 AM

Fellas, maybe a little late to the conversation here, but FWIW:

C&LS did not do factory paint in Korea.   

All models were imported unpainted into the US.   Henry had Ken Beiler paint the models; that is your "factory paint".    I have a couple of the units and a gaggle of his RS as well.   I have yet to see the MTH model in person, I am sure it is very nice and due to the rarity of C&LS models, likely to be the best option going forward.

 

 

The carworks FM is a great looking model IMO; one of my poor reflexive decisions was to sell mine after I got a TM....    Regretted ever since.    If you can afford it, Bultman's are the best---doubt anyone will surpass them in the next ten years---but you never know!

 
Last edited by BradA March 11, 2014 12:25 AM
 
 
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March 11, 2014 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by BradA:

Fellas, maybe a little late to the conversation here, but FWIW:

C&LS did not do factory paint in Korea.   

All models were imported unpainted into the US.   Henry had Ken Beiler paint the models; that is your "factory paint".     

 

 

 

Brad,

 

I think you are mistaken ala factory paint. Take note of this paragraph cut and pasted from the C&LS webpage and read the bolded print carefully:

 

Only the Train Master demonstrators, Pennsylvania with antennas, Southern Pacific black widow, and Virginian Train Masters will be completely factory painted. The rest of these versions will be partially factory painted and finished here in the U.S. by a custom painter. These are Phase 1 & Phase 2 Jersey Central, Reading, Lackawanna, Erie Lackawanna, and stock Fairbanks Morse. What you get on these semi finished models is the frame, mechanism, trucks and fuel tank painted black and baked. The lights and Kadee couplers are installed with the glass in a separate parts package. No clear coat is applied. To finish the model the mechanism does not have to be disassembled or the clear coat removed. C&LS can finish the model here with a custom painter or you can use your own custom painter. The paint from the factory is extremely durable and perfectly applied.

 

I think Kenny B. may have done some Reading versions for Henry

 

Simon

 
 
 
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March 11, 2014 5:18 PM

Simon,

You are correct about which versions Henry had painted by the factory. There were 2 numbers in PRR, 2 Southern Pacific, and I believe 1 in Virginian. The Demo units were done in TM1 and TM2. The rest were supposed to be factory painted, but by that time, Henry's relationship with Boo-Rim had soured. Of the demo units, TM1 had a dozen examples and TM2 had 6. I bought a mint set from a friend of TM1 and TM2 2 years ago. I've never seen a paint job done so nicely. Everything is so crisp and smooth. And there are 7 motors in each unit. There is a motor for each truck and each fan. And they are smooth as silk. 

Tom Mapes

 
 
 
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