Stumped on conventional control

The original Powermaster was not compatible with many MTH Protosound (Proto-1) engines. A few would work OK but most would not operate with the Powermaster. It was the old chopped sine wave vs. smooth wave problem.

They will work fine with a TPC 300 or 400 instead of the Powermaster.

Jim

Checking his 2 other conventional MTH engines, they run fine, with engine sound, horn. bell. Just the F3. I'm hoping an easy solution, he doesn't have the cash flow, but does want to enjoy what he has. I'm hoping something besides having him change from transforme, and moving the transformer up so he can reach it, to his command control power packs. I help as much as I can, it keeps him busy and as he says, passes the time during the day.

I once installed a 50uf non-polarized capacitor across the track with a problem PS/1 locomotive, it allowed it to run with the CW-80 transformer.  Without the cap, it was very cranky.  Worth a shot, and it's a cheap test.

Engine starts up with sound, lights. Sound cuts out, lights stay on, engine will run in either direction, but no more sound, nor can horn or bell be initiated. Power cut or decreased to stall, sound comes back. When I hook up a transformer, everything works perfect sound, crewtalk, brake release, etc. Only when its on the power pack (he has 135) running with TMCC in conventional mode that there is no sound.

I should add, (we live in same neighborhood) I took engine with me, tried it on my layout, and it act similiar. I wasn't going to dig a transformer out, but sure it will run as on his layout.

What model number is this?

I assume it use to work fine and now doesn't?  Or is this a new engine to him?

Did you try a reset 18 with the conventional transformer?  G

Use to? It still does, but only with transformer, (I even used mine early this morning), everything works fine with transformers, and transformer control only.

His layout is TMCC run with a 135 power brick. When he puts this engine, (MT 2151LP) on the track and switches to "Conventional" control. The engine fires up, with engine sound. After a few seconds, engine sound stops. Yet bringing control up engine will move forward, newt., and reverse. Lights stay on, but no engine sound, no bell or horn. Slowing down to a stop, engine sound comes back, then shuts down.

NOW! Putting the track from the power brick, to a regular transformer to power track, everything works perfectly, under transformer power. I took engine home with me last night to run on my layout, same thing. Runs, but no engine sound, bell or horn, yet lights work and runs forwrd and backwards. I dug out my transformer minutes ago and  wired to track to test, engine ran perfectly. Sound, bell, horn lights.

He has other non command engines, MTH, that run perfectly on the track. Just this one.

there is nothing you can do but follow jim's and/or gunrunnerjohn's advice above.

some engines are picky.

you might try hooking up the transformer that works and place a toggle switch in the wiring to only use the transformer that works when they want to run that engine.

I understand that.  Did it ever work with the Power Master, and now it doesn't?  Or it has never worked with the Power Master?  For the first, try a reset 18.  Additionally some models have setting for transformer selection.  Again Model # helps.

If the latter is the case, then it is a model that only works on pure sign wave.  Probably an early model.  Stuff from 1997 through 2000 usually works fine on electronic transformers, but early stuff may not.  G

Sounds like what he needs. I don't believe he can afford a Lionel TPC. Maybe have a Soundmaster TM still around or couple?

I gave up, and told him we would rewire to include a transformer, he's not a happy camper as it is since he went into "O" scale. He said in all his years of Model Railroading in HO, he never encoutered problems as he has in "O". He also said that he could fix 99% of the problems, "O" is a new breed he says that needs to slow down and fix the problems left behind, before moving forward.

Thanks for all the input. I try and help him as much as possible, a widower, and in a wheel chair so, I try to help.

Try the simple capacitor fix first and see how it works out.

I have a lot of the correct bi-directional capacitors left over from my business venture.

Anyone who wants up to three for free just e-mail me and I'll give you my address. Send a self addressed stamped envelope, padded preferred, and I'll get them right out to you along with instructions on how to use.

BTW: They do not need to be left in place just until you start up the engine.

lugnuttshirts@aol.com

WOW! That's nice of you, but I ordered some this morning. Just finished putting a transformer temporarily on a folding tray and wired it up with a switch so he can run it. He's a happy camper right now. But with wheelchair it cramps his tight quarters moreso.

Again, thanks, and thanks to all that chimed in. If that doesn't work out, me and wife talked about maybe having it converted to TMCC and new sound board, if its not to high. If it wasn't his favorite engine, I would probable talk him into making it a shelve queen only. I have to admit, its a very fine scale Santa Fe F3 AA set.

Again, thanks friends.

I'll bring some to York in October if anyone is interested.

Dang, your good. He got the capacitor Tuesday night, and this morning hooked it up temporarily with alligator clips. Works great. He wants me to thank you for the help. Now I can grow back the hair I tore out.

For what it's worth, you only need the capacitor when the engine is booting up. Once the engine is initialized/running, it will perform perfectly, running, reversing, etc, without the capacitor.

One of the original design engineers says that the powermaster is not happy with a capacitive load, and may fail sooner than usual.

When I had a similar setup, I put a normally open push button switch in series with the capacitor, pushed the button on boot up of the engine, and released the button when the loco was running.

You only need the cap when initializing the engine.

Sometimes the simple solutions work the best.   The cap won't hurt anything if you just leave it installed.