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Last week's York DCS User GroupMeeting was well-attended. There were 75 attendees registered and at least that many showed up.

 

Following are the minutes that were prepared from the notes that were taken by our meeting "scribe", Don Klose. Read and enjoy!

 

19th DCS Users Group Meeting

April 22, 2015

 

Barry welcomed everyone to the 19th meeting of the DCS users group. He started out with a joke he told at the very first meeting about the flood of 1890. It was really very well-received. (At least Barry thought so! )

 

Barry pointed out that DCS is now 13 years old and we have come a long way. Many thanks to Marty Fitzhenry, Bob Snyder, Pat Marinari and Robert Robertory (RJR) for updating 16 TIU’s, 14 remotes and the cloning of 2 remotes earlier in the meeting. Also, many thanks to Don Klose for being our meeting scribe.

 

Barry introduced Dave Hikel and allowed him to clear the air as regards his discontinued DCS App beta test. Dave pointed out that MTH has taken a different direction and the ProtoNet Adapter distributed at the last meeting may be returned to him for a full refund. He went on to say that MTH is now using different software and technology for its Wi-Fi app, and has retained a larger company for its implementation.

 

Barry then began our regular DCS question and answer session. Some highlights follow.

  • The first question was from a person who was new to DCS, and was having issues when lashing up 5 DCS engines. Some of the member engines were exhibiting flashing marker lights under DCS 4.30. Barry identified this as a known issue in DCS 4.30 that was already corrected in the current DCS 4.31 beta.
  • The next question concerned Atlas Track. The person’s layout only gets a DCS signal strength of 4-5 when doing a signal test. This happens everywhere on the layout. Various suggestions were provided by the attendees: remove the blackening on the top of the center rail. This is well-documented as causing DCS signal strength problems; when testing signal strength have the engine stationary (preferred) or moving very slowly, to get a more accurate signal strength reading; the TIU might have a weak channel and need to be serviced. A discussion also ensued regarding the length of the wire run between the engine and the TIU, and whether or not it could be causing a DCS signal issue.
  • The next question was with regards to the operator blowing the horn and being unable stop it. It was asked if this could be due to a low DCS signal. It was suggested that it could be due to ahing more than one TIU/power connection to the track block; not using blocks at all; or due to dirty track, dirty pickup rollers or dirty engine wheel engine wheels.
  • A discussion started with regards to common engine problems. Number one is the battery. It can create a great many light, sound and “engine not found” issues. A good, charged battery will allow sounds to operate for 6-8 seconds after turning off track power. MTH uses NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) or NiCad (Nickel Cadmium) batteries. One should never use LiOn (Lithium Ion) batteries in a PS2 engine because the charging circuit is not designed to charge LiOn batteries correctly. they are a fire hazard.
  • An issue was raised by an individual who has  some 2-year old diesels that miss the watchdog signal when track power is turned on. It was discussed that some PS3 engines may have a software anomaly that cause them to miss the watchdog signal if power is ramped up from 0 volts slower than almost instantly. MTH is aware of the issue. Further, it was pointed out that PS2 and PS3 can respond differently when power is applied. One way to negate the problem would be to sue TIU Tracks or Z4K Tracks to bring power immediately to the desired operating voltage. 

At this point, Andy Edleman and Rich Foster, MTH’s vice-president of marketing and vice-president of sales, respectively, joined the meeting. Barry introduced Andy Edleman, who made a formal presentation regarding MTH’s current and future plans for DCS.

 

Note that Andy’s MTH presentation included answers to most, if not all, of the questions submitted by OGR Forum members prior to the meeting.

 

Andy Edelman’s Presentation

 

MTH is celebrating 35 years and will soon debut its “35+5” program for MTHRRC members, with products commemorating its 35 year history.

As always, MTH is seeking feedback as to what they can do better to improve the DCS experience.

 

MTH’s budget focus is around the development of DCS and its WiFi app, which will be released in both free and paid-for versions. MTH expects the WiFi app to increase the benefits of DCS and make the user experience even better than it is already. The WiFi app is currently MTH’s highest priority, coupled closely with the development of its associated WiFi module. If the WiFi app is as successful as MTH expects it to be, then any development of the DCS remote will be put on hold. [Editors note - later in the presentation, Andy discusses the WiFi app and the WiFi module in detail.)

 

Regarding the DCS AIU, Andy related that the current state of the AIU remains unchanged and that there are no new plans for a revised AIU.

 

Andy then surveyed the audience and gave away an MTH product to the person who had the most switch track on their personal layout.

 

The DCS app and its associated WiFi module are top priority for MTH development, with new PS3 hardware development further down the road. However, previously completed were the Proto-Sound 3.0 upgrade board, as well as a new hardware package for S Gauge locomotives.

 

After the introduction of the APP, MTH plans to reintroduce the COORS Light train technology in cars to automate operating cars, operate couplers and other things.

 

As regards scale operating couplers, the muscle wire prototypes for S gauge units have not operated consistently. At present, it is not planned to introduce scale couplers in S gauge or in the heavier O gauge product line.

 

Current Proto-Sound 3.0 hardware includes more onboard memory, a faster processor and a better amplifier that will result in better sounds, and those sounds are appearing in our models as we reformat sound clips in our library to take advantage of the new hardware.

 

Where possible, we're going out and recording new sounds. The renovation of the N&W 611 steam engine now going on in Spencer, NC will provide us with a great opportunity to obtain all-new sounds for this classic engine.

 

MTH is about to release locomotives with improved “clickty-clack” sound effects that you can more easily hear. The improvements in the clickty-clack feature have convinced MTH to reduce the speed threshold at which the clickty-clack feature is activated so that users can better appreciate the wheel squeal, clacks and clicks we've included in the sound set file.

 

We've received requests for additional feature enhancements like the inclusion of an automatic forward or reverse signal when the locomotive changes direction. Such suggestions are invaluable to us and are strongly encouraged to continue.

 

Andy recognized the DCS beta testers attending the meeting and made it clear that they provided an invaluable service to MTH. He stressed the importance and difficulty of testing the system in every possible environment, including: dirty track; corroded wheels and pickup rollers; electronic “noise” that affects DCS signal quality; “spaghetti code” in the software; and that fixing bugs often creates new bugs.

 

A new version of DCS software is being developed that will address the following bugs currently in DCS 4.30: random loss of a TIU channel; Light/Smoke random toggling issue; Lash up volume settings; Lash up lighting settings.[Editors note - some of these are already corrected in the current DCS 4.31 beta.]

 

This version is being developed now along with the changes to the TIU code necessary to allow the new WiFi module to communicate with the TIU. The new DCS software will be released on or before the new WiFi box and the app versions have been released. MTH will announce a formal date for the release of the software, the WiFi box and the app on or before July 4th.

 

Many folks have asked about the viability of creating train control/collision avoidance software that will or could be incorporated into DCS. Such inclusion is unlikely in the near term for three major reasons:

  1. We feel like the target market is too small for such systems given the lack of huge layouts for which such a system would be ideal
  2. The high cost of implementation, not just in the hardware (you need sensors throughout the layout) but in the installation of the equipment. It's a lot of work, a lot of wiring and not everybody has the patience or skill set for such systems.

  3. Finally, there are already systems available in the market. Dave Hikel employs such a system on several layouts he's designed and installed.

 

Many have suggested an enhancement to the DCS Loader Program that allows users to utilize a computer to reprogram locomotive sound files as well as upload new hardware code to DCS components. Expanding on the Loader Program to do more functions may be shifted over to future versions of the WiFi app. If not, the licensing of an outside firm to develop an enhanced computer interface is something we continue to study.

 

Andy continued and discussed the current status of the development of the WiFi app...

 

Over the course of the winter, MTH made a decision to switch to a new developer to finish the DCS app. The decision came about as a result of delays in development that we felt compromised the feasibility of completing the initial development stage in 2015.

 

In the end, we felt a new developer could devote more resources to the project and ensure the app's delivery this year. As a result of this change, the entire GUI of the app is changing, leaving us with no screen shots or demo to provide to you today.

 

Beta testing of the app will begin in July and the app's completion will occur late this summer. The hardware design of the WiFi module is nearly complete and should go to Production in August with a targeted delivery to MTH Authorized Retailer shelves by early this Fall. A firm delivery date for the app and hardware will be announced in July. They will deliver together.

 

The MTH app will be available in both iOS and Android versions, and will function on both phone and tablet models using either operating system.

 

Initially, both the iOS and Android versions will be released with limited functionality as a free download. Approximately six months after the free versions are released, paid versions will be available for both operating systems. The paid versions will give users ALL of the functionality of a full-blown DCS system.

 

The free app comes with a wide range of DCS functionality including: Speed; Direction; Whistle/Horn, Including quillable functionality; Bell; Front and Rear Proto-Coupler Control; select engine-specific sounds Including Passenger Station Proto-Effects, Freight Yard Proto-Effects, Coupler Slack, Forward Whistle Signal, Reverse Whistle Signal, Crossing Signal, Train Wreck and more; select engine specific features including Acceleration/Deceleration Control, Smoke On/Off, Smoke Intensity, Labored Smoke, Proto-Chuff, Headlight On/Off, Clicky-Clack, Cab Chatter, Brake Sound and more; control of up to 99 Engines; unlimited app users; dual DCS Remote/app Control.

 

The paid app essentially is a full blown DCS remote and can do everything that a DCS remote can do, including; control DCS components like the AIU Accessory Interface Unit or multiple TIU Track Interface Units configured for Super Mode Operation.

 

In addition to all the functions found in the free version of the app, the paid version adds: control up to 999 Engines; control TMCC and Legacy locomotives in TMCC Mode; control Variable Tracks for conventional locomotive operation; Record and Playback Operating Sessions; create and operate Track Routes; Create and operate Accessory Scenes; broadcast Audio Using Proto-Cast; build and operate locomotive lashups; download and upload engine sounds and code; and download and upload of DCS software.

 

Hook up is simple and takes just a few minutes. The WiFi module plugs into the DCS Track Interface Unit using a USB or USB to Serial Port cable. Older TIUs use the serial port and newer TIUs should use the USB port.

 

You don’t need WiFi in your home to use the WiFi module and the app. The WiFi module may be configured to run as a stand-alone access point or a networked module (if you want to retain Internet access via your home WiFi network).

 

You can use the WPS button to connect to your home WiFi network. There are LEDs on the module that alert you to setup and operating status. The app will automatically find the modules and connect to them.

 

The free app will find engines just like the normal DCS system. The paid app will have an import process that will pull all the engines and settings that are currently in the remote, into the app.

 

Andy then went on discuss the ProtoSound 3 Upgrade Kits...

 

Beta versions of the Proto-Sound 3.0 kits were shipped to MTH Authorized Service Centers earlier this Spring and their feedback is allowing us to finalize the kits for general release in June.

 

Many of you want to know if you should upgrade your Proto-Sound 2.0 Locomotives. The answer is that you should only if you want DCC control and want to get away from occasional battery replacement. The upgrade module will plug into your existing Proto-Sound 2.0 wire harness and utilize the incandescent lighting already found in your locomotive. This is the biggest difference between the upgrade kit and factory installed Proto-Sound 3.0, which utilized all LED lighting.

 

Once the O Gauge/G Gauge Kits are released, we’ll begin working on the HO kits. These kits will not utilize the infrared-flywheel speed control method found in past ProtoSound 2.0 kits or any of the ProtoSound 2.0 and 3.0 factory equipped locomotives we've produced. They will instead rely on a speed control concept commonly used in the HO world called back-EMF which, while not as accurate as the infrared-flywheel method we currently employ, will possess a smaller footprint than the current kit for installation in smaller S and HO engines, and will allow for use in older engines utilizing AC motors like the Pullmor motors found in older Lionel products.

 

Andy then answered a few questions, the latest MTH 2015 O Gauge Volume II catalog was distributed and the meeting was adjourned.

 

Last edited by Barry Broskowitz
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Barry,

 

I want to thank you for forwarding may interest in collision avoidance, station stops and blocking, etc to MTH.  I did see the response as you anticipated.  However, it is my opinion that some of their response deserves a second look.

 

1)  I suspect the target market is much larger than than anticipate.  The functionality added by this technology is significant.   Also, the competition has already moved in this direction.

 

2)  MTH is correct, it costs money to implement this and it's work to implement but the added functionality are great.  I believe there is a market wiling to invest in the hobby as long as there is a significant benefit.

 

3)  The existing system mentioned in the MTH response is a stand alone system not integrated with DCS.  It also requires an investment.  I suspect MTH can do it for less and it would be DCS integrated.  Also, the recommendation is surprising given the recent change in DCS App/Wifi direction.

 

I wouldn't expect these features to be available "tomorrow" but it seems they should be on the table for future incorporation.  The beginnings of this technology already exists elsewhere, it seems only logical for MTH desire to lesson discriminators.

 

Thanks again Barry

 

 

 

I had detailed discussions with Dave on the Hikel collision avoidance system and I was left with the impression that it was stand alone

You were mistaken. It is part and parcel of his PC-based DCS/TMCC control system. The system directly connects with the layout's TIUs and Lionel command bases. You can use any mobile device that has a web browser to operate the system, as well.

 

I had it installed for about a year before I lost interest in operating my layout using a PC. The collision avoidance function was the one thing I didn't implement because of the amount of work and wiring that would have been required.

 

I don't think that you have an appreciation for exactly how much work it is to do what you want to do.

Thanks Barry, very interesting.  I was surprised to find that the the WiFi system DCS application software will be both free and a paid version that will allow you to do lashups and record/playback.  After spending 179.00 for the WiFi module I was hoping the software application might be free. I thought that was the impression that MTH previously gave us for the last two years and part of the reason the WiFi module was relatively high priced.  

That is disappointing to me personally.  

 

Wish I could have attended this year but family requirements prevented it.  I certainly do appreciate the work you, MTH and all the beta testers do to keep the rest of us informed and up to date.  Thanks!! 

Last edited by pennsydave

Barry,

   Thanks much, as usual I look forward to your recap because I am unable to attend.

I am disappointed that MTH is not upgrading their DCS hand held remote controls, I do believe they should be doing the WiFi App and upgrading the hand held remote control, both at the same time, not every DCS owner is going to want the WiFi App control package, and I happen to fall into that category myself.  However everyone will own a DCS hand held remote control unit.

PCRR/Dave 

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad

Although I think the WiFi modules ended up being more than was expected, I think MTH is spending a considerable amount on the development of the app which they will need to re-coup somehow. I imagine there will also be continued app development costs for upgrades and bug fixes etc. Considering all that, I can see the charge for the advanced app. If memory serves me though, I think they always had two apps planned, one free and one pay?

 

As for the remotes, at the TCA museum presentation, Andy E. stated the remote development was on hold until they could determine the success of the app. He didn't completely rule out further development, but I think they are counting on the app doing well so that probably leaves the remote on hold as is with no further development. 

 

If the apps are well received, I can see the TIU's being sold with the apps and WiFi units instead of the remotes, if that ends up being possible. Or the TIU and WiFi with the free app and then you later upgrade to the pay app. We will have to wait and see, time will tell. They have to get the WiFi and the apps released first though.

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