TCA re-up or not?

Many have stated it well in previous posts.  

One thing I'd like to add is that if one cares about the future of the hobby (and IMO it's selfish not to), then one should support an organization that promotes the hobby.  If not TCA, then LCCA, LOTS, or TTOS.  

I will most likely continue my memberships in the TCA and the NRA, even though I buy very little at York or at gun shows. 

Left the TCA in 86'. Don't miss it and never looked back.

Your loss Paul

It isn't the $50 bucks that caused my membership to lapse.  It's the 10 hours in the car one way.  I usually would blow all my money in an hour or two on Thursday and then just wear out my eyeballs and feet for the next day and a half before starting the 10 hour drive back home.

Being an operator and liking all the new stuff, I didn't care much for the Quarterly or Newsletter that went into detail about collector stuff either.

Dennis

Dennis posted:

It isn't the $50 bucks that caused my membership to lapse.  It's the 10 hours in the car one way.  I usually would blow all my money in an hour or two on Thursday and then just wear out my eyeballs and feet for the next day and a half before starting the 10 hour drive back home.

Being an operator and liking all the new stuff, I didn't care much for the Quarterly or Newsletter that went into detail about collector stuff either.

Dennis

Thats why I am just doing TCA once just for fun to cross off the bucket list.  Heck with internet, you can get just about any new/old stuff you want on flea bay or other dealers.  And I don't do well with mingling with hordes of pushing shoving crowds.

But thats just me.

rrman posted:

Dennis posted:

It isn't the $50 bucks that caused my membership to lapse.  It's the 10 hours in the car one way.  I usually would blow all my money in an hour or two on Thursday and then just wear out my eyeballs and feet for the next day and a half before starting the 10 hour drive back home.

Being an operator and liking all the new stuff, I didn't care much for the Quarterly or Newsletter that went into detail about collector stuff either.

Dennis

Thats why I am just doing TCA once just for fun to cross off the bucket list.  Heck with internet, you can get just about any new/old stuff you want on flea bay or other dealers.  And I don't do well with mingling with hordes of pushing shoving crowds.

But thats just me.

RRMAN, I presume your post is about joining TCA and then going to York.  If so, I would really like to see a post or thread from you after your trip to York, good or bad.  I think you will enjoy the experience for sure.

rrman posted:

Heck with internet, you can get just about any new/old stuff you want on flea bay or other dealers.

True, but to a kid, sitting on Santa's lap is much more exciting than seeing him on TV.

Joe Hohmann posted:

rrman posted:

Heck with internet, you can get just about any new/old stuff you want on flea bay or other dealers.

True, but to a kid, sitting on Santa's lap is much more exciting than seeing him on TV.

 

I LIKE your reply!!

Joe Hohmann posted:

rrman posted:

Heck with internet, you can get just about any new/old stuff you want on flea bay or other dealers.

True, but to a kid, sitting on Santa's lap is much more exciting than seeing him on TV.

 

Everyone wants to sit on Santa's lap with all the changes around here these past few years.

For someone who is in the train hobby, going to York for the first time is better than sitting on Santa's lap as a kid.  Especially since you can be your own Santa.

Steve, I'm sure you meant well but you lost me trying to figure how I can sit in my own lap. 

I like Bobby's recommendation much better.

Farmer Bill: You HAVE to come to York for your Scrapple fix.

York's pre-registration fee is now $15.50 when paying online, so that's $31 if you attend both shows each year and pre-register online.  Meanwhile, the TCA dues are now $50 annually.  So I spend $81 annually to attend York.  That's the ONLY reason I'm a TCA member... plain and simple.  Haven't visited the museum since the 1990's.  And while the TCA Quarterly has much improved its look-and-feel over the years, it still misses the mark in terms of being a relevant hobby publication.  If it didn't make its way to my mailbox, I don't think I'd be missing out on anything.

Bottom line... for me anyway, I essentially spend $40 to walk into each York show... which of course doesn't include travel expenses.    If I miss one of the two shows, then the cost to walk into the ONE remaining show jumps to $66 (not including travel costs).   I still enjoy the York SOCIAL EXPERIENCE, so I renew my TCA membership (for now).  But I make no false illusions as to why I'm a TCA Member.  In one word, it's YORK. 

Now if the TCA were to raise its annual dues AGAIN in the near future -- or if the importers and large dealers stopped attending York, then I'd be gone in a heartbeat.  Because truth be told, there's just no way we can "mathematically" justify York anymore -- at least not in terms of NEEDING York to find that hard-to-get train item or to build our model train rosters.  There's just too much product being pumped into the market these days, and dealers are offering "sales" every month in spades nowadays to get folks to buy their inventory.  It's gotten to the point that I've all but stopped pre-ordering high-end locomotives anymore, because the sale prices (a few months after products hit the States) are very often lower than the best pre-order prices we see when catalogs are released.

So aside from York's personable "social experience" (which is admittedly a huge factor), the sensory overload of seeing massive amounts of trains in one place has essentially run its course for me.  And the realization that we can pretty much purchase just about anything we need any time of the year through a virtual community (i.e., dealers and model train enthusiasts selling trains) has slowly chipped away at the venerable status York as enjoyed for decades.  Just keeping it real, folks. 

Five to ten years out, I can EASILY see York being just a once-a-year event.

David

York's pre-registration fee is now $15.50 when paying online, so that's $31 if you attend both shows each year and pre-register online.  Meanwhile, the TCA dues are now $50 annually.  So I spend $81 annually to attend York.  That's the ONLY reason I'm a TCA member... plain and simple.  Haven't visited the museum since the 1990's.  And while the TCA Quarterly has much improved its look-and-feel over the years, it still misses the mark in terms of being a relevant hobby publication.  If it didn't make its way to my mailbox, I don't think I'd be missing out on anything.

You are not alone. Plenty of folks have clearly stated that they only belong to the TCA to attend York.
That is all well and good. The TCA needs you, it has lots of overhead.

On the other hand, I skipped the last few York shows, and don't have any plans to attend a show anytime soon. No plans to visit the museum either.
I am still a TCA member, and will continue my membership. I like the magazines. I like having the member moderation service. (I have never needed to use it)

As for the TCA magazine being relevant: Perhaps you prefer the articles that appear in the commercial magazines like OGR and CTT. Maybe Model Railroader too. Do they still publish RMC?
Regardless, hasn't the stock and trade of the TCA's printed magazine been material that was too obscure to be published by the commercial magazines?
And what about the ETrain, online magazine?....... nothing of interest there?
IMHO they should make the ETrain a members only publication, and/or move the articles to the printed magazine.

I just paid my dues about a half hour ago. Of course, for me York is a two hour ride, and being a seller for the last few years has more then paid for the dues fee, and the York registrations. I stay at my sister's just across the border in MD, so that's a bonus to see her and her husband twice a year. York was my reason for joining, but the friendships I've made both on the many forums, and in person, are worth far more then the dues and the registration fees. TCA and the Huber Breaker Preservation Society in my home town are the only organizations with dues that I belong to, unless you count Church! I will continue to remain a TCA member until either it folds or I do.

Don

Been a member since 2012.  I live in Florida and have never been to York and don't know if I ever will attend.  I joined and continue to renew because I feel it is the right thing to do.  This hobby has given me a lot of enjoyment.  Why not support the organization?

I think you've answered your own question.

Rod Miller

I recently renewed my membership in the TCA. Originally I joined to go to York. Just like most guys on here. That was the only reason I could see for joining. But as time went on I got involved with our local chapter, the Southeast Divison. I go to to the meets sometimes as a seller with my table. And sometimes as a buyer just walking around seeing what's on the other members tables. Bottom line is I want to support my local chapter. Thats where the hobby is shown to the public. We open our meets to the members between 9:00 AM and 10:00AM. Then to the public from 10:00AM to 3:00PM. I'll bet I've sold more trains and answered more questions to non-members than members. That's my main reason for renewing again! 

As far as the York meet is concerned I agree with ROCKY MOUNTINEER. The meet will eventually change to once a year! You could see that something was going to have to change after the low energy spring meet. I know I don't purchase anything close to what I once did at York. When I look a a item now the thing that runs through my head is; "Can I  get it cheaper online?" So unless it's a great bargain I wait until I see it online at the price I want to pay. The hunt is the thing. And the hunt has moved online for the vast majority of my purchases. 

Now in all honesty I belong to the LCCA too. The main reason was to purchase some of their specialty sets and cars and to get to go to the Lionel open house on a Friday night in November before its open to the public.  Living in south does have its benefits!

Dave

I belong to the TCA so I can go to York. I go to York because I can't think of anything better to do on two Thursdays each year. I buy VERY little at York, but I have a great day.

Frankly, considering personal computers, train forums, and eBay, I think it's a wonder that the TCA is as strong as it is. I used to belong to another hobby organization that had a annual convention and "trade fair" (dealers selling stuff). In 1995, over 800 attended. Today, it's more like 125 (eBay has made the "trade fair" way overpriced). I'm still communicating with prior members, and that hobby in general, via Facebook ("vintage stereo slides").

Like Joe, I only belong to TCA to go to York.  I am not a collector, so the "rusted relics" halls have no interest to me.  If the manufacturers and major dealers were to pull out of York, I would drop the membership.  I wouldn't need it to go to the outside social events, which I find to be the principal reason to go, now that my layout is essentially overfull of trains.

With retirement closing in,(Hopefully by March 2017), I  will renew both LCCA and TCA Memberships  as I plan to attend many shows.  I enjoy trains and all related merchandise. I have a lot of trains and accessories to sell and I plan to do so at the shows. Its a people hobby and that's why I like it so much. Yes, $50 is a bit pricy, but, look at all the volunteer folks sending us LCCA NEWS- TCA NEWS, Sale items like Interchange Track, and the TCA Bulletin, and more. I have worked most all of my life, on weekends and its time to Travel, Have Fun while My Health holds up and see lots of layouts, stores, museums, and hopefully lots of home layouts.  WOW, Its gonna be fun...Cheers! Yes, its well worth the $50!!! 

I don't care if the manufacturers come to York or not. I'm a collector, & that's what the meet is all about. That is what TCA stands for. I don't believe the meet will go to once a year anytime soon. Who the hell wants to wait a year for York to come around.

eddie g posted:

I don't care if the manufacturers come to York or not. I'm a collector, & that's what the meet is all about. That is what TCA stands for. I don't believe the meet will go to once a year anytime soon. Who the hell whats to wait a year for York to come around.

Eddie, your points are very well taken.  HOWEVER, you can't deny the fact that the demographics for train "collecting" have changed... and will continue to change.  I'm an example of the changing demographic who attends York for more of a "trade show" rather than a "toy train collectors meet".  And then of course, there's the whole social element at York that spans collectors and operators.  That much, we have in common, I'll admit.  But at a certain point, I just don't think there will be sufficient critical mass to continue York (as it exists today) twice a year... let's say five or ten years out.

If York reverts back to the way it started decades ago with just a handful of remaining "collectors" getting together, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  All I'm saying is York as we know it TODAY (based on how its evolved over the past 10-20 years)  is likely to change in character going forward... and it might only be scheduled once per year.  Just my opinion... and certainly not based on any inside information.  More of a gut feel than anything else.

The accuracy of a good crystal ball for any of us notwithstanding, I guess we'll need to revisit this topic 5-10 years out and see how the ED-TCA York calendar looks then! 

David

I am paying my dues again so I can go to York one last time,my local TCA dues are $40 so I will probably not renew,I live in Ca and the museum is of no use to me.I will continue my membership in LCCA because I believe that they are a very progressive organization,they set up the ride on the UP 844 for the convention in 2010 at Denver,something that TCA has never been able to pull off.

Mikey

I will continue my membership in LCCA because I believe that they are a very progressive organization,they set up the ride on the UP 844 for the convention in 2010 at Denver,something that TCA has never been able to pull off.

The TCA has organized at least a couple of cruises. A TCA cruise is about as much interest to me as a TCA ride on the UP 844 would be. To each their own.

This thread is about the TCA, not the LCCA.

"TCA, re-up or not..."

For me, I will definitely sign on the dotted line and pay my dues as required, the TCA York experience is quite unique, a one of a kind experience as many of you have stated. It is an insane asylum for toy train lovers. Hopefully, the doctors will never find a cure. You can put me back in my padded cell till the next TCA York.

enjoy your toy trains...

eddie g posted:

I don't care if the manufacturers come to York or not. I'm a collector, & that's what the meet is all about. That is what TCA stands for.

With all due respect, and we are all certainly entitled to our own opinions, my opinion is that the focus on ONLY collecting is what limits membership in the TCA. 

My guess it the number of operators probably outnumbers the number of collectors. I do not understand why the TCA doesn't try to broaden its base to entice more folks to join?  If there were resources that I, as an operator, might find useful, like fixing/upgrading modern model trains, building structures, soldering, etc., I would join in a heartbeat.

Jim

FWIW...

Train Collectors Association Mission Statement:
"To develop an appreciation of and to preserve an important segment of history - Tinplate Toy Trains - through research, education, community outreach, fellowship, establishment of collecting standards, and to promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains."

So the TCA does have "operating" in their mission statement. Some chose to ignore it. 

I concur wholeheartedly with Jim.  Model trains have an appeal to a broad spectrum of desires:

Some persons like to have collections.

Some persons like to operate trains with much siding switching.

Some persons enjoy building the scenery to replicate life, and just having trains running through that scenery is enough.

Some persons like to operate, and to have as much track as possible for alternate routes and siding.

Some like playing with modern electronics and model trains.

Some have one or more of these.  Every one, whether EddieG or Jim has a legitimate interest. 

As I, and apparently Jim and others see it, TCA as it now operates is focused only on the first of these interests above, with the exception of York.  York, with the presence of manufacturers, dealers, semi-social events, and the various seminars, is the one TCA function I know of that goes beyond mere collecting and apparently is the only reason why a large number of members have joined TCA. If the manufacturers and dealers pull out, the interest in York must decline.

I hate to seem disparaging, but I have little interest in the TCA newsmagazine devoted to old trains; as far as I am concerned, TCA could save what it costs to send it to me.  Not having an interest in collecting, and lacking the artistic talent to construct scenery, I am left to operating and electronics.  I would welcome a broader focus to encompass operating, etc.

As I, and apparently Jim and others see it, TCA as it now operates is focused only on the first of these interests above, with the exception of York.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I've been a member of the TCA for over thirty years. When I joined, I am fairly certain that the TCA mission statement didn't make any mention of operating, but there were certainly operators in the TCA who were welcomed. Lots of collectors are also operators.

IMHO, The TCA has done quite a bit to accommodate the operator. I see operator centric material in both the TCA printed magazine and the TCA online magazine.  There are manufacturer's talks at the TCA museum before each York.  There are multiple operating layouts at each Eastern Division train show (York).

What more would you have the organization do?

CW, the real issue presented by this thread is what can TCA do to staunch a decline in membership and York attendance.  It is not sufficient to say, stay the course.  The manufacturers incur considerable expense twice a year attending York, which, unlike dealers, produces no revenue directly attributable to that expense.  If they pull out, what will happen to the show and to York attendance, not to mention TCA membership? 

The answers and various positions set out above are ideas which TCA board must consider in charting the future.  If they choose correctly, success; if not, the Museum goes on the auction block and York becomes just another regional show.

It's not just a TCA issue, NRHS has had a steep decline in membership. I wouldn't say there's less rail fans like there isn't less ogaugers out there but there's so many ways to get the same benefits free via the Internet or what have you.  

I am only a TCA member to go to York. I have really no other use for it. I skim through the Quaterly, etc and may read an article but am really looking at the pictures. No in-depth reading on those subjects. 

If the entire York show shrinks, without Manufacturers, etc, I'll no longer go. Until then, I'm there. If the entire York show opens to the public, I will let my TCA lapse. 

     Once again we see this old age question......."TO BE or NOT TO BE". .... a member of TCA.  i do hope many of you are not as despondent in your decision "TO BE"  as Prince Hamlet was when he uttered those words.   Farmer Bill i am glad you stayed with us, but , in that time you took to make your decision the anti TCA arm chair quarterbacks were quick to strike.   it's OK.  we in the TCA  have broad shoulders and can handle the constructive criticism.  For the purpose of this conversation, we shall call them the - Non Believers- .    The non believers will tell you TCA is finished, the membership is leaving,  York is done and the museum will be auctioned off.   Not so much.  sorry to disappoint you.  The TCA is not going anywhere.

     The TCA is a VOLUNTEER  organization.  The division officers and committees are volunteer. Yes we have full time jobs, families and lives to live outside of this great hobby.  We do the best we can.   Since we have grown from a barn to a  international organization with a large membership, property, and assets, we also operate the business side of the hobby.   Newsflash: this great hobby of ours has a business side.  To manage this large organization the national office has a paid staff.  The non believers will tell you the club was better with out the business or dare i say the National Toy Train Museum.  The TCA in my opinion balances both sides out pretty **** good.  As with any organization membership fluctuates.  Leadership changes. challenges are met head on, technology comes along, demographics change and the organization grows because of its  members.   This organization has changed over the years for the better. It is not just a good ole boys club anymore.    A gentleman posted our mission statement. It is pretty self explanatory to show that everybody is included.  To be fair  are we a perfect organization? No we are not. We are making strides and changes so that we can fix our deficiencies.  Some of these fixes take time and we will do our best.   Some of the non believers attacked our museum.  Yes, we preserve the history of toy trains in our museum and library.  Yes there is a cost to that.  How can you criticize preserving history?  Even some of you non believers have to admit it is a pretty impressive collection even if you do not collect or operate the types that are displayed.  Some attacked our Quarterly. i speak with a bias and happen to enjoy the Quarterly.  For those who did not like it, if you were a member , how about writing an article or talk to Mark. Perhaps suggest productive changes.   I guess it is easier to throw stones.   Now to the cherry on top.  YORK.   i do hope everybody knows it is an Eastern Division train show.  Not a national show.  Ok. just wanted to clarify that.  For those who join TCA just for York,  thank you very much for your donation. i do hope your business prospers because of the York show.  There is so much more to joining TCA than just the York show.  i have made so many new friends around the country and have learned so much more about the  trains i collect and operate.  To promote friendship and fellowship in the great hobby is also part of our mission.  I have the utmost in confidence in the Eastern Division when it comes to running the York show.  

i will end with this.

 To the non believers-  we really are not that bad. we are good people that make up a great organization.  

 To the supporters--   I want to thank all those who defend and support TCA not just in this forum but throughout the hobby in general.  Thank you very much.

I will be in York for anybody who wants to continue this conversation face to face. 

NJTHBYDM posted:

    ..............................

i will end with this.

 To the non believers-  we really are not that bad. we are good people that make up a great organization.  

 To the supporters--   I want to thank all those who defend and support TCA not just in this forum but throughout the hobby in general.  Thank you very much.

I will be in York for anybody who wants to continue this conversation face to face.  

 

  

We need a "Like x 10" button for posts like this!   (trimmed not for content, but just because I didn't want to reprint  the whole thing)

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, Kevin.

-Dave

Kevin, I don't read the above posts as being critical, so much as an intent to convey the respective authors' views so that TCA and its chapters may consider alternatives in order to assure adequate income to continue.  Different persons word things differently, and different persons read the same words as either constructive of critical.

For example you say that people "attacked our Quarterly."  But, if a significant percentage of TCA members express a lack of interest in the Quarterly, then TCA ought to consider how it can reduce publications and postage costs by providing a vehicle to unsubscribe, or make it on-line with hard copy only to those who request same.  TCA should welcome such observations, rather than consider them as an attack.

All gloom and doom from those who don't spend money on trains anymore, those who have never attended, are too far away to attend or who aren't allowed by their spouse to go. 

Just go, have fun, see friends, meet new friends, but a few trains and take them home and run them. It's easy, you might even learn something or enjoy seeing others enthusiasm when they find a treasure. It does your heart good. Have no fear about 5 or 10 years from now. The York Meet will last as long as the members support it.  From what I observe at the Meet, I don't see it ending in my lifetime.   I enjoy it so much, I think it should be held four times a year. 

Dont worry, be happy!

Perhaps "attack" is too strong a term to describe Quarterly Critique" But if you as a member find little of personal interest in its content, it would be beneficial for the rest of us who do find the magazine of interest to suggest specifics about what you find uninteresting and what you might like to see as articles or discussion in the Quarterly. Contributions are appreciated and in these cases , the editor can help you with article composition so long as you have the idea ,theme or concept and a few words .  Critique should be about making the magazine better.

I find the Quarterly interesting because it documents the toy train history from folks who have played with the trains and may have gone further to study them over the years with an interest in learning more about them. When a new item is released by todays manufacturers , it becomes part of toy train history as it is released . If you have that new item and have an interesting story to tell about your experience with that item, that adds to Toy Train History and perhaps the Quarterly and its readers can derive benefit from such a contribution.

Its ok to say that the Quarterly is of little personal interest but it is much better to tell us why that is so and volunteer your suggestions on how the folks can make it better. That seems a better route than unsubscribing or ceasing publication.

I joined because I was told I couldn't come back to York unless I was a member. I can say that this year will be my second time going and possibly my last. I had a blast last October. Strasburg and Gettysburg were great and I enjoyed the train show. Meeting and talking to people made the trip very enjoyable (Maple Donuts didn't hurt either). I'm not a collector, I'm just a guy who likes to run trains. This year I'm going to look for specific things and I have a large list of possibilities I've been compiling. As much as I like PA, once I get the items I want, there won't be a reason to come back for quite a while. I was thinking about not renewing my membership, but for now I'm keeping it.