time to limit number of items listed the"for sale" forum? you bet

Gentlemen,

   I have no skin in this, however if the Boss determines a change be made it's up to him. It does however always amaze me that others always want to tell Rich Melvin how to run his OGR forum.  

PCRR/Dave

So?

Thomas, if I still had my 1990's era l t i ....i'd trade you in 2 seconds.... good luck on your sale...

Must be this isn't a bump

My interpretation of the rules is that they already forbid what is commonly done on the buy / sell board. People are not supposed to ask questions or make comments in the thread. They are supposed to contact the person who posted the listing directly.
I imagine that it would be very time consuming to police that sub-forum, and the listing person would be penalized for something that was not their doing if the thread was deleted because someone posted a reply.

If comments wouldn't bounce it to the top nobody would care. Should be a way to change that .

Original post should be automatically closed (a one time post if you will), all questions, comments should be emailed to the originator.

Originator and admin would be the only ones to delete/change the single post.

Prewar Pappy posted:

Jim,

I agree with you 100%. The truth be known, I doubt if the Moderator(s) will read and agree accordingly. The backlash from the guilty parties would terrible. (Kinda like a turd in the punch bowl)

Just what is that supposed to mean, Pappy? Why would we be concerned about backlash from people who are breaking the rules? Especially when the objective is to get people to FOLLOW the rules.

yamaha226 posted:

If comments wouldn't bounce it to the top nobody would care. Should be a way to change that .

There should be, but there isn't.

Guys...., Jim in particular since you are the OP.....you are 100% correct.  The For Sale / Trade rules have been getting broken a lot lately and the reason we know this is we get  A LOT of alerts to the posts in the FS/T "forum".  If everyone would just follow the rules stated in the featured topics in that category, it would run pretty smoothly....but for some reason the rules have been getting broken fairly regularly.  Whole discussions take place which unfairly bumps other posts down...  Questions, comments, disagreements....you name it.  AND...it is very difficult to monitor as said above....  I am sure Rich will see this thread and will respond but he has posted the rules and I don't think they are unreasonable to follow. 

In my opinion, I am glad that Jim has brought this up because all of what he says above is true and perhaps it is time to address what is going on....   In the meantime, if you see a for sale thread in which the items have been sold, PLEASE alert us to it so that we can delete it just in case we have not seen it...

All the Best,

Alan

Points taken.

To add to what Alan said in his post...

The ONLY WAY we will see this abuse is if you send us alerts about it. We don't monitor this forum 24/7. We don't see the posts you are talking about. I see less than 1% of what gets posted here.

OGR Ad Man posted:

... In my opinion, I am glad that Jim has brought this up because all of what he says above is true and perhaps it is time to address what is going on....   ...

Alan,

While I understand the spirit of the OP's post, I found it a bit disconcerting that he's painting with such a broad brush.

Based on the title of the thread as well as the OP's closing comment, he's taking exception to multi-item for-sale threads... or at least that's how I'm interpreting it.  Yet the body of his post calls out a discussion that occurred on a single-item for-sale listing.    Looked like just a few seasoned forum folks having a little fun.  It's not as if they do it everyday.

If the OP is overly concerned with thread-bumping, perhaps I can provide a slightly different perspective in that I've had NUMEROUS inquiries when my for-sale threads have migrated off Page 1.  I'd rather have serious buyers find my listing on Page 2-10 rather than fret over whether my listing stays on Page 1 only to be read and dismissed by hundreds of tire-kickers.

As somebody who periodically posts multi-item listings in the for-sale board, I work hard to organize those listings and manage the multiple inquiries and transactions in a timely manner.  All while playing by the published forum rules.

Do we really need folks wasting their time worrying about whether threads have too short a shelf life on Page 1?  It's no secret that the amount of for-sale listings has noticeably increased recently.  So I'd suggest folks just get accustomed to listings migrating off to Page 2+.  If there's something of value in the listings, serious buyers will find it.  If that weren't the case, I wouldn't be using the for-sale board as regularly as I do. 

David

 

"...Do we really need folks wasting their time worrying about whether threads have too short a shelf life on Page 1...?

David

Well, you seemed to have worried about it enough to respond to the thread.  

A simple, bullet proof solution, (if the software of the forum allows), is that a FS thread be automatically locked once posted allowing no further posting to it.  Doing that would force inquiries and responses between potential buyers and sellers to be made directly via email. Problem of bumping simply and painlessly solved, NO HASSLES, NO COMPLAINTS!

BTW, a price reduction of an item would require the original listing be removed before a reduced price listing could be posted, AND the original FS listing and reduced price listing could not be posted on the same day.

As for the possibility of moans, groans, and complaints by sellers, my philosophy is they only have the right to complain about such rules if they're paying for such a FS service but not when it's offered free by the graciousness of the board's owner/operator.

1. We are using a forum to sell and buy items so it's the nature of the beast to have this happen. The only solution is that folks follow the rules, and email the original poster if they have questions or comments.

2. Locking threads is not the answer because if the original poster wants to change or correct their price, then they are forced to create a new thread, and now we are creating all new problems with multiple posts for the same sale.

It would be great if the for sale posts could be locked to anybody other than the original poster and the admins.  Then a poster could even clean up after themselves, and delete dead listings. I would be surprised to learn that the forum software supported such an option.

BNSF-Matt posted:

1. We are using a forum to sell and buy items so it's the nature of the beast to have this happen. The only solution is that folks follow the rules, and email the original poster if they have questions or comments.

2. Locking threads is not the answer because if the original poster wants to change or correct their price, then they are forced to create a new thread, and now we are creating all new problems with multiple posts for the same sale.

Not if their original post has to be deleted before the "changed/corrected" listing is posted

ogaugeguy posted:

BNSF-Matt posted:

1. We are using a forum to sell and buy items so it's the nature of the beast to have this happen. The only solution is that folks follow the rules, and email the original poster if they have questions or comments.

2. Locking threads is not the answer because if the original poster wants to change or correct their price, then they are forced to create a new thread, and now we are creating all new problems with multiple posts for the same sale.

Not if their original post has to be deleted before the "changed/corrected" listing is posted

That sounds like a lot of work for the mods to be constantly monitoring the forum to delete posts. Allowing the original poster access to his/her post and locking out other's works much better in my opinion, but I have no idea if that is even possible.

Ogaugeguy....your suggestions above are great!...problem is I don't believe the software allows us that kind of capability...Rich would know.

David...the OP's post is right on and without nitpicking Jim's real meaning, his "broad brush" statement of the problem "paints" the situation pretty well.   If you got the NUMEROUS alerts the moderators get, you would know that.  AND...by the way...it IS an every day problem not just the one thread used as an example in Jim's post.

The easiest thing for OGR to do is to just do away with the For Sale / Trade category...problem solved!  I'm not suggesting OGR do that...just "sayin".  All that is asked is to follow the current rules....

Alan

It is easier to respond to a posting by using the  original thread rather than finding an e-mail address.  Sometimes the e-mail addresses don't work also. I use and enjoy the  'for sale" section- better than the Bay.

Please don't do away with the for sale forum.

Also, the other day I offered a free prewar coupler. A guy spoke for it. I went to the edit post option box. There was an option to delete post. I did. All over. Gone. Can't everybody do that?   I didn't have to post that the item was gone and ask for it to be deleted.

jim pastorius posted:

It is easier to respond to a posting by using the  original thread rather than finding an e-mail address.  Sometimes the e-mail addresses don't work also. I use and enjoy the  'for sale" section- better than the Bay.

Jim....it may be easier to respond by using the original thread but by doing that, it bumps up the thread unfairly according to the current rules.  If the email address that is provided by the OP doesn't work, then alert the moderators so that we can try to help.

Thanks,

Alan

I think you can only delete a post if no one replies.

jim pastorius posted:

It is easier to respond to a posting by using the  original thread rather than finding an e-mail address.  Sometimes the e-mail addresses don't work also. I use and enjoy the  'for sale" section- better than the Bay.

Respectfully, Jim and Alan, email addresses don't work? Only possible email problem could be the sellers and that shouldn't happen since it'd be the responsibility of sellers (not the moderators) to ensure the email listed in their profile is accurate and current at the time of their FS posting. As for buyers, their emails would be "replied" to by the seller.

MattR posted:

... the other day I offered a free prewar coupler. A guy spoke for it. I went to the edit post option box. There was an option to delete post. I did. All over. Gone. Can't everybody do that?   I didn't have to post that the item was gone and ask for it to be deleted.

If somebody had responded to your thread by posting to it, you would not have been able to delete the thread.  I'm pretty sure that option exists only for a thread containing no responses.

David

The sell forum  seems to be doing what it is intended to do.  Not only allow sellers to dispose of unwanted items, but to allow others to acquire new treasures.  It seems to be working adequately to fulfill both of those requirements.  When something its working, don't tweak it or it might get worse.  I haven't felt gravely injured by reading an ad twice and who knows, a bumped ad might reveal something an anxious would-be buyer may have missed.

I also note that sometimes allowing a post by others clarifies the items being offered.

My vote: leave it as is.

ogaugeguy posted:

jim pastorius posted:

It is easier to respond to a posting by using the  original thread rather than finding an e-mail address.  Sometimes the e-mail addresses don't work also. I use and enjoy the  'for sale" section- better than the Bay.

email addresses don't work? Only possible email problem could be the sellers and that shouldn't happen since it'd be the responsibility of sellers (not the moderators) to ensure the email listed in their profile is accurate and current at the time of their FS posting. ...

Actually there are other email gremlins in play that can cause communication issues.  Without going into the techy details, there are times when a buyer's email response may not make its way to the seller.  That happened to me one time when I responded to a seller with an @comcast.net email address within seconds of his posting the thread, and he never received my email.     Turns out the comcast email servers were blocking all emails coming from the company that hosts my website/email.  Sometimes email servers have SPAM algorithms that mistakenly block legitimate messages, and what's worse is they don't always notify the sender that their email message hasn't been delivered.

So being able to respond on the thread has its merits in that case.

David

Jim Berger posted:

just as the title says. most guys are pretty considerate about posting their for sale trains...there  are a few that really take advantage trying to  dump collections,..i'am thinking the for sale forum was started  with the intention a member could sell an extra train item or two.....not a multi-thousand dollar collection.

This is a problem.....................

John H posted:

I think you can only delete a post if no one replies.

 I see, that makes sense . He didn't reply on the forum either, he replied to my direct email . That's why.

This is just a very popular site !!   Maybe we could have a better search function, I did a search for my ad for UP hoppers for trade and nothing came up, did the same thing asking for sale and everything with UP or hoppers comes up, but very little for sale or trade and my ad never did show up. And nothing was in any kind of order the posting dates where all over the place. I gave up trying to find my own ad. Maybe i'm doing something wrong. If so how do I, do a search for just the For sale or trade forum? or the wanted to buy forum.

Thank you

Clem k

Clem,

If you are looking for your own post, look under  activity on your profile page. In search, there is a drop down menu in Forums.

clem k posted:

This is just a very popular site !!   ...

Exactly... Which is why I mentioned folks should just get accustomed to their listings migrating off Page 1.  It's no big deal.  I'm not implying folks should break any rules either.  Just understand that as more folks try to sell their trains here, time on Page 1 is gonna vary tremendously from day to day.

Get over it, people.  Why can't some of you folks just be glad we even have a great venue like this to sell our trains?  And on top of that not even pay any commission fees?    

David

Why can't some of you folks just be glad we even have a great venue like this to sell our trains?  And on top of that not even pay any commission fees?

I think David is absolutely correct.

I appreciate having the OGR Buy/Sell/Swap sub forum and try to abide by the rules.

If you don't like how the board is run, then don't use it.

There is a big different between suggesting an improvement and just complaining.

David Minarik posted:

Jim Berger posted:

...i'am thinking the for sale forum was started  with the intention a member could sell an extra train item or two.....not a multi-thousand dollar collection.

This is a problem.....................

Beg to differ with you, Dave.  This forum started years ago with no sponsors, no sponsor banner ads, and no sponsor for-sale threads that are now allowed to be interspersed in the mainline board (and recent posts index).  Sometimes there are multiple posts by the same sponsor.

Is that a serious problem?  Of course not.  Time has marched on, the forum has evolved, and most members have evolved with it.

While I don't doubt the original intent of the for-sale board might have been to sell an "odds-and-ends" locomotive or piece of rolling stock from one's roster, who could have predicted 15 years ago that an increasing number of train enthusiasts would be parting with more and more of their collection over time?  Heck, ask me just 5 years ago, and I never would have predicted we'd have 5 lines of banner ads at the top of the forum home page either.  

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

David Minarik posted:

Jim Berger posted:

...i'am thinking the for sale forum was started  with the intention a member could sell an extra train item or two.....not a multi-thousand dollar collection.

This is a problem.....................

Beg to differ with you, Dave.  This forum started years ago with no sponsors, no sponsor banner ads, and no sponsor for-sale threads that are now allowed to be interspersed in the mainline board (and recent posts index).  Sometimes there are multiple posts by the same sponsor.

Is that a serious problem?  Of course not.  Time has marched on, the forum has evolved, and most members have evolved with it.

While I don't doubt the original intent might have been to sell an "odds and ends" locomotive or piece of rolling stock from one's roster, who could have predicted 15 years ago that an increasing number of train enthusiasts would be parting with more and more of their collection over time?  Ask me just 5 years ago, and I never would have predicted we'd have 5 lines of banner ads at the top of the forum home page either.  

David

David,

There are some who really abuse this.  As a sponsor, I do not use the forum in this manor or even use it to promote my shop except on very rare occasions.  My sponsorship exists because I like the forum and wish to contribute.

There is one member, and I use the term member lightly, who constantly uses the forum for the sole purpose to peddle his large personal collection.  He offers no contribution in any other part of the forum and this has been going on for years.   Let him become a sponsor

Respectfully,

Dave

I can assure you all that without our sponsors helping with the costs on this forum, there might not be a forum.  At 10 million pages views and thousands of posts per month as well as the bandwidth costs.....we are very fortunate to have this place!!