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I am an old codger but I have a love for the new way of running/operating trains. I have followed with interest a number of threads on this site and others about the modern technology available to operate trains. I have seen both sides of the equation and have been on both sides, some trains that come from Lionel and work perfectly as they should and some that have arrived and had to go back for warranty work. I have seen a lot of bashing of Lionel because of problems some of which I have experienced myself. I understand some of the problems that come from having items manufactured so far from home, the place I retired from started having their products manufactured in China to save costs and to avoid some problems with the EPA. This did create some problems with the quality of the product we manufactured, and it was not a high tech product. I vented on another forum my feelings on this and on the difference these new Lionel products have made for me to make this hobby much more fun and I thought to share the same here:

 

I am definitely amongst this group that is getting older, crossed into the 70's last year. I for one love the old Gilbert trains but, I also embrace the newer Flyonel equipment. These trains, "when they are right", can do things we only dreamed of a few years back. There is problems with some of the equipment but in my experience Lionel has stood behind their products and continues to do it. Do I like the fact that I had to send some things back for warranty and pay for the shipping? No but, at the same time I never had trains before where they were capable of truly being operated, we used to just run trains. I see us now with a system where I can have, for example three engines sitting on the same piece of rail and energize the one of my choice, be it Gilbert or Flyonel, and build a train and "operate it" while leaving the others at rest. I have a system where I can take a seventy year old conventional Gilbert engine and run it with a wireless remote and view it, as I control it, from any place on the layout. This give me much more enjoyment in a hobby that I dearly love. I can take, if I so desire, that 70 year old engine and give it a new life by installing an ERR motor driver board in it and run it completely independent of other locomotives on that same piece of track. I do not say that these developments are for everyone but we have a number of members of the BSG that have to different levels adopted the TMCC/Legacy system and are quite happy with it. When this group does get together to run trains we can operate or run five or six or even more trains on one layout all at the same time and it can be a mix of the old and new, and they can be taken to anyplace desired on the layout. This can be done without a need for a system of blocks to separate the power to each engine. On my layout ,"if" we would want to do, it we could run three of the conventional Gilbert engines on independent blocks and still do it with the wireless control. The TMCC/Legacy system also is not a complicated system to operate, all that needs to be done is to power up the layout, punch in a two digit number for the engine you desire to run, into the handheld remote and you are up and running. Now also thanks to Electric Rail Road I can take a conventional Flyonel passenger set and convert it to TMCC and have the conventional Railsounds B-unit horn or whistle and bell triggered in the TMCC mode. I for one, although I know I am not alone, thank Lionel for bringing this system to S gauge. Trains for me are much more fun than they have ever been. Yes there can be and is some frustration but the fun overcomes it.

We also have so members on the scale side that use DCC and I think that is great, why not use the advancements that modern technology has given us.

Ray

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This thread has been sitting here for a while and been pretty quiet. I would like to stir it up a little bit. I run Legacy now and I am pretty well satisfied with it but, I am looking at the idea of adding DCC to the layout, reason being some of my S gauge engines make a TMCC installation including sound very tight to impossible. So the question is would it be possible to add DCC and run Legacy with it simultaneously? I would like to find the answer before purchasing the DCC system.

Thank you for any input

Ray

MartyE posted:

Well I can't say for certain but I do believe they are compatible in which they can both co-exist on a layout. 

Marty is correct. TMCC and DCC can co-exist on the same layout just fine but they must be elitrically isolated from one another. You can't run TMCC and DCC locomotives in command mode in the same electrical block. However, you can have one loop of TMCC/DCS right next to a loop of DCC. 

Ray, I like your writeup, somehow I missed it when you first posted. I am not sure I follow your final conclusion on DCC. It seems you already have the necessary isolation if you can run a conventional Gilbert engine on one loop of track at the same time as a Legacy engine is running on another loop. Seems it would be simple to install a DCC decoder in an SHS engine and borrow a power supply and controller to see how it works. I don't think the DCC engines will care if the Legacy signal is on the rail.

I agree with your observation on modern controls. I will be using the LCS App to control my new layout as well as Cab 2's and iPhones with the iCab App. I set up a test layout on the floor to verify this system worked and I could adequately model in LCS before committing. Imagine a Flyer layout with no hardwired controls and no control panel, it was a paradigm shift for me.

We are from the 'cool' generation. My age group (59) are the last of the baby boomers. I'm a 'rotary dial' kinda guy, but those days are over. Times have changed. I do like my Cab1-L system and my ERR engines. I have no interest in DCS, but that's a personal choice. I have had issues with TMCC/ERR and Lionchief. I'm not going to get into details since it's be covered already. I'm still going to run them. Ray, you make some good points.

AmFlyer posted:

 I don't think the DCC engines will care if the Legacy signal is on the rail.

 

That might be true but I guarantee that a Legacy locomotive will not be happy with the DCC signal on the rails.  One time I tried to run a DCS locomotive in a DCC block. I could hear the 29KHz DCC signal in the speaker of the DCS locomotive. And it was loud too. I turned it off right away. Fortunately, no damage was done.

Ray, I'm glad I could help. I have gotten so much help from this forum I always try to give back whenever I can.

Phil, very true of course. If the block, loop or power district used to run a DCC engine is electrically isolated from the rest of the layout the Legacy engines should not see the DCC signal. Depending on how the tracks are separated into blocks or power districts and how the wiring is done it may take some rewiring to keep the signals isolated. I think this is the point you made above.

I recall that Carl Tuevson had posted an article on his web site addressing the issue of running different control systems on the same track at the same time. Please correct me if I am wrong. I believe his information was derived from actual testing. I think you could go and search his site and get the answer(s) you are looking for. Again, as I recall, there were several systems that "plays well with others".  Since Lionel is now producing AF engines that are multi-functional control wise out of the box, it stands to reason that TMCC, Legacy, and DCC are "compatible".  And again as I recall, Carl's testing included, SHS Locomatic control as well. 

Bill Gill

Kelso, WA

Bill, that's very interesting. I forgot this was the S scale forum. I don't have any of the Lionel S scale lomotives that are Legacy and DCC compatible. It depends on exactly how Lionel designed the electronics. If the electronics can sense whatever signal is on the rails and automatically switch to that control system the DCC signal shouldn't bother the electronics but then again if both DCC and Legacy were in the same block how would the locomotive know which system to follow? Or maybe it would follow any commands it recognizes as going to its address regardless of which system sent them?

If the Lionel locomotives need to have a switch thrown to change from Legacy to DCC then there still could be an issue if the locomotive is in Legacy mode and it enters a block with DCC on the rails. I would like to read Carl's article. Is it still on his website? 

I am working on bring back AF trains to for shows with my Train club

Right now I have one loop of track on  board shared with N gauge

My plans are to wire the track to a terminal strip then to a transformer

I want to plan for possibility to have TMCC  to control the new s gauge trains can I use the same wiring?

I know I will need to have a place on the terminal strip for the command wire to go but where the hot or the comm?

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