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I have two TMCC engines that I run on conventional. One blows its horn indiscriminately and sometimes continuously. It has a Battery Eliminator in it.

 

The other is a 4-unit Santa Fe with a powered A and B units. Two problems: I'm using a 9 volt on this one. When I cut off the power, the engine sounds continue at notch 8. It won't shut off until I pop the cover and pull the battery. What's gong on?

 

The other problem started after it ran for about 5 minutes. The powered B suddenly starts acting like a dead weight. Current goes sky high and it stops pulling. When operated separately it didn't work either. 

 

I'm pulling it apart tomorrow. Is there anything I should be looking for? Here's footage of it running just before it stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXQ-NCVvN3c

 

Both of these engines have very little mileage on them. They were both unpacked today after being in storage for over five years. 

 

In general, I don't like the way TMCC engines work in conventional. MTH PS2 works much more predictably.

 

I've never run either of these in TMCC. I should take them to a service station and have them checked out.

 

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Given that you only run conventional, a "board reset" is cycling power.

 

The one that the sounds continue on has the earmarks of a board failure, there is a failure mode where the board won't shutdown until the battery is removed.

 

Swap the RailSounds boards between the two units, one at a time.  You should be able to isolate the issue if it's a board failure.

 

The powered B-Unit sounds like either a board failure or perhaps just a loose wire issue.  Have you opened it up and checked for any loose wiring?

 

How about actual models for each of these units? 

 

You know that TMCC doesn't charge the battery, so a "battery eliminator" needs the charging circuit as well as the supercap package, right?

I do have the charging board for my BCR, and that is working properly other than the intermittent horn blowing.

 

No, I haven't taken the cover of the B unit yet but will doing so shortly (Monday). If it's a loose wire, I can fix that. If it's a bad board, it will have to go to the train store.

 

I want to get a BCR for the Santa Fe too, so the continuous running after power off would sort of self correct. The railsounds work perfectly when the unit is powered... horn, bell, notches up and down.

 

Also, since none of these units are interconnected like in MTH, how do I get the rear, dummy A unit's headlights to turn off when going forward? Are all TMCC multi-unit engines like this? In MTH, the rear unit gets instructions from the lead so it knows when it's going forward or backward. What tells the rear unit in TMCC that it should be off?

You can add the ERR MiniCommander EX to control the dummy unit. The MSRP is only $35, and I think you can get a bit of a discount with Boxcar Bill on the forum here.

 

From the ERR Web Site

 

The Mini Commander EX has a full complement of outputs for supporting dummy engine applications.  Outputs feature support for directional lighting, coil couplers, ditch lights, and a re-configurable output for strobe, smoke, or cab lighting.  Additionally, serial signals are output  for sound systems.

Originally Posted by Trainman2001:

 

 

Also, since none of these units are interconnected like in MTH, how do I get the rear, dummy A unit's headlights to turn off when going forward? Are all TMCC multi-unit engines like this? In MTH, the rear unit gets instructions from the lead so it knows when it's going forward or backward. What tells the rear unit in TMCC that it should be off?

I think what you want to do to make the headlights directional is to "Build a lashup"

of your engines as described in the manual they came with.

In TMCC mode the front engine will light up when going forward. The rear engine lights up when going in reverse.

I'm not sure if you can do this in conventional mode.

See this chart for instructions to make a lashup.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

There is no logic in the rear locomotive to control the lights, and you can't build a lashup in conventional mode.

 

Yeah I figured that about the conventional mode.

Without having stock #'s it's hard to tell what engine components he has. 

I do have a set of Lionel TMCC FA AA's (6-38182) that has a powered lead A unit and an unpowered dummy A unit. The dummy does have directional lighting, smoke and electrocoupler. It's possible the OP's engine has it too. Without #'s who knows?

Mark

I have never run anything with a BCR or run conventional so I can't comment on your first engine other then to say clean track PU rollers and wheels and try a battery. The continued sound is probably the brown out circuit of the RS power is bad. The powered B unit could have a bad motor driver, shorted wire. Also you might what to check the odyssey on and off switch.

 

Bill

Did several things. 

1. In A unit, odesy was on, turned it off. Smoke was on, turned that off too. In fact all the switches underneath seem to be installed backwards so on is off and vice versa. The turn-off problem seems to be intermittent since in the last run it shut off properly.

 

2. The B unit. Seems to be a major problem. Took off body and attempted to run it from wires touching roller and wheel. Worked for moment then stopped. Took straight 12 vDC and connected directly to motor input. Both motors ran perfectly in both directions. Pulled the AC plug to the board where rollers come in, put AC there. Nothing happened, saw smoke, heard "POP" and then nothing. Checked every wire and all were in place, not shorting, not loose. My opinion, main board is toast.

 

I'll take it to Roundhouse Trains and have them evaluate. This unit never ran very well or very long. It's no longer a new unit, and warranty is no longer an option.

 

I still like MTH DCS in conventional. 

 

Thanks for all the input.

Originally Posted by banjoflyer:
Originally Posted by Trainman2001:

 

 

Also, since none of these units are interconnected like in MTH, how do I get the rear, dummy A unit's headlights to turn off when going forward? Are all TMCC multi-unit engines like this? In MTH, the rear unit gets instructions from the lead so it knows when it's going forward or backward. What tells the rear unit in TMCC that it should be off?

I think what you want to do to make the headlights directional is to "Build a lashup"

of your engines as described in the manual they came with.

In TMCC mode the front engine will light up when going forward. The rear engine lights up when going in reverse.

I'm not sure if you can do this in conventional mode.

See this chart for instructions to make a lashup.

Hope this helps.

Mark


If the dummy has the LCRX or the R2LC, no need to do this in conventional. They cycle properly in conventional.  Again the boards could have needed to be reseated from sitting, followed by resets.  I am sure you LHS will get it.  G

It has something in it... it has a "run/program" switch. It also has a backup light that seems to work correctly. I like the idea of no tethers between units, but don't like the idea that you could have the isolated B unit with no specific direction from the lead unit that could end up out of sync... this of course, is when running conventionally. With an MTH multi-unit engine, this can't happen since all the "intelligence" is in the lead unit. My A-B-B-A N-S F-7 runs like a top in conventional. The only problem I had with that engine was peeling paint on a B unit body. I sent it back to MTH and they replaced it. The Lionel engine, although new, was bought from a private seller. I'm taking the B unit to the train store today or tomorrow. It will cost me $$, but the single unit has some trouble pulling the train up the slope with 9 cars. I have to run at 19+ volts. My MTH GG1 pulls the same train at a lower power input with two motors.

Took the B unit to Roundhouse Trains, an authorized Lionel service station. After the initial check we determined that the R2L2 (or something like that) was dead. He has a specific checker to evaluate that. We also found out that the 19B body style didn't have a smoke unit even though the parts list on line showed one. He thought that I may have a "Grey" market unit—one that may have been sent back to Lionel as defective and then somehow gets onto the market—except he had an exact same B unit in stock that was obtained from a customer and guess what, it had no smoke unit either.

 

Also, it seems that the motor with the speed sensor had a lot of drag in it. He feels that it's enough to increase the current flow through the circuit to overheat them and cause failure. He say engines that have sat for a while can have congealed Chinese grease in them. Possible...

 

He'll evaluate everything. If it costs too much to get it running, I'll pull the motors off the trucks and run it as a dummy unit.

 

Meanwhile, the A unit is running nicely. I've figured how to get it to shut off. I lower the throttle to idle in neutral and then kill the throttle. It shuts off nicely in about 10 seconds.

 

They were telling me all kinds of things I didn't want to hear about TMCC. For instance TMCC engines don't like derails since the power surge can toast the circuits. They don't like certain transformers. Again, I'm leaning MTH.

 

I'll let everyone know the final determination on the B unit. 

The motor's worm gear shaft appeared to have an over-sized running end that goes into the bearing. It was binding and as it heated up eventually stalled the motor. The motor unit was replaced along with a burned out rectifier. The good news is that they were able to trace out specifically which mirco-chip on the R2L2 board had failed and replaced it. Total job was $105. 

 

So I put the B unit back into the consist and all ran well for about 5 minutes until the current started rising, speed started dropping until the stall came. But it wasn't the B unit. It was the A unit. I'm not a happy camper! 

 

Could it be possible that it has the same bad motor problem as the B unit. The symptoms are exactly the same. I'll take this to the shop and see what they say.

Problem solved. I am using roof granules for ballast. IT IS MAGNETIC! There are iron compounds in it to prevent mold and mildew. The Lionel Santa Fe has Magna-Traction. When I built the railroad and found that the stones were attracted to magnets I warned folks who wanted to use it for ballast that it could cause a problem with Post-war engines. I didn't realize that my late model Lionel 14588 Santa Fe had Magna-Traction until last night. When I picked the engine up, I saw some stone sticking to the wheels. If a stone gets thrown into the gear train, it stops that engine and exhibits the problem I'm having. When I cleared the gear the engine worked great! I am now selling this A-B-B-A set to anyone who wants a beautiful engine who doesn't use roofing granules for ballast.

It works great with MTH, 3rd Rail and Atlas, just not with Magna Traction. I had vacuumed up a small spring from a Ross switch. I used some powerful magnets to search through the trash in the shop vac and snagged the springs. I also snagged the stones that I vacuumed off the floor. I found out from some roofing experts that roofing gravel is a manufactured product that has these anti-mold compounds in it. It does get picked up by Lionel wheels.

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