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I have a big problem. I built 2 8x10' layout tables and one 8x8'.  Got them where i wanted them got them lined up. I thought i had straight lumber but soon found that was not the case. The tops of the tables are so unlevel they are not usable. I have since took them apart and checked lumber with a straight edge and it's not even close. I hate to buy a jointer/planer but i see no way out of it. Has anybody else run into this? There is nobody in this area that could plane them straight for me. What do i do now? beside scrapping the project.

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What type of lumber did you use for the framing ?   It can be difficult to get framing lumber, 2x4s, 2x6s, 2x8s, etc that are and will remain perfectly true.  Even kiln dried lumber can move and twist.  White pine boards, 1x4s, 1x6s, 1x8s will be more stable.  Better yet, glued up stock, that is the type you will see that is made from shorter pieces of 1x material, will be the most stable.  It's available primed at Home Depot and Lowes or any good lumber yard.  

If the lumber you have has not twisted, it can be straightened on a table saw, easier than it can on a joiner.  Have a look at this video.

https://youtu.be/9rS_Q7fu5rM

If you are using 2X lumber for the framing, you could straighten them with a table saw like Dan said.  If you are using 1X lumber for framing, you could straighten them the same way or make them into L girders. You could also put shims between the plywood and the framing to make adjacent tables level.  There are also better grades of lumber in both 2X and 1X.  I have used clear 1X pine to make pine cabinets.  More expensive, but the clear pine at Home Depot is fairly reasonable.

I can only guess you used construction grade lumber here.  if that's the case the title of the thread seems a bit misleading as for my entire life there has never been a time when construction grade lumber was straight and true.  

I don't know how to put this nicely, but I'll try my best.  It's not the lumber's fault if the carpenter doesn't know what they are doing.  There are a number of ways to true-up lumber, or ways to avoid having to do so to get a level surface.  for a beginner I would recommend using strips of plywood rather than using 2x lumber as it will typically be a lot easier to work with and won't bow or twist.  You can cut nice, square, strips with nothing more than a circular saw and a long piece of scrap steel or aluminum and a couple clamps.  

For the tables you have already built, I'd try using shims under the surface to level them somewhat.  Once the surface has been leveled you can use a sub-floor adhesive, construction adhesive, or expansion foam to fill the gaps between frame and table top and hold everything in place.  

JGL

I always check the boards at HD or Loews before buying them.  Make sure the lumber is completely dry to the touch.   I use the concrete floor as a level and check all sides.  I may go through many, many boards to select what i need.  Just dont compromise.  If they ask me what I'm doing I tell them or show them.  

Then, it's best to use them fairly soon and do not let them get hot or in the sunlight.   Treated lumber and cedar are the worst for twist/curve.

I think the attic of my house was made from specially selected wood like you have.  I just figure Salvador Dali was on the crew that day and shrug it off.

 

Last edited by aussteve

"The tops of the tables are so unlevel they are not usable...." 

Wow. Bummer. I have never had that experience; My layout(s) were built with common 1X4's and ordinary plywood (no L-girders or anything like that) 20 - 25 years ago and I did not run into anything but incidental ups-and-downs. I've only built 2 layouts in my life, though (I don't like doing it).

Your experience sounds like you used really low-grade lumber, but I don't get the impression that you did. I took no special care building mine, beyond common-sense measure twice, cut once. Sympathies. Save the better pieces and go buy some more - checking straightness at the lumber yard.

BTW - I have made 2 major additions to the layout in the last 6 - 7 years - a turntable/roundhouse/engine area and a classification yard across an aisle from it, and the new 1X4's seemed as straight as the "old" ones.

Last edited by D500
JohnGaltLine posted:

I can only guess you used construction grade lumber here.  if that's the case the title of the thread seems a bit misleading as for my entire life there has never been a time when construction grade lumber was straight and true.  

I don't know how to put this nicely, but I'll try my best.  It's not the lumber's fault if the carpenter doesn't know what they are doing.  There are a number of ways to true-up lumber, or ways to avoid having to do so to get a level surface.  for a beginner I would recommend using strips of plywood rather than using 2x lumber as it will typically be a lot easier to work with and won't bow or twist.  You can cut nice, square, strips with nothing more than a circular saw and a long piece of scrap steel or aluminum and a couple clamps.  

For the tables you have already built, I'd try using shims under the surface to level them somewhat.  Once the surface has been leveled you can use a sub-floor adhesive, construction adhesive, or expansion foam to fill the gaps between frame and table top and hold everything in place.  

JGL

John, I bought framing lumber as that is all you can get around here. I did try shimming it but that didn't work out either. I do have a nice older Delta table saw.

D500 posted:

"The tops of the tables are so unlevel they are not usable...." 

Wow. Bummer. I have never had that experience; My layout(s) were built with common 1X4's and ordinary plywood (no L-girders or anything like that) 20 - 25 years ago and I did not run into anything but incidental ups-and-downs. I've only built 2 layouts in my life, though (I don't like doing it).

Your experience sounds like you used really low-grade lumber, but I don't get the impression that you did. I took no special care building mine, beyond common-sense measure twice, cut once. Sympathies. Save the better pieces and go buy some more - checking straightness at the lumber yard.

BTW - I have made 2 major additions to the layout in the last 6 - 7 years - a turntable/roundhouse/engine area and a classification yard across an aisle from it, and the new 1X4's seemed as straight as the "old" ones.

I bought the best 2x4's and 1x4's i could find.

Dan Padova posted:

What type of lumber did you use for the framing ?   It can be difficult to get framing lumber, 2x4s, 2x6s, 2x8s, etc that are and will remain perfectly true.  Even kiln dried lumber can move and twist.  White pine boards, 1x4s, 1x6s, 1x8s will be more stable.  Better yet, glued up stock, that is the type you will see that is made from shorter pieces of 1x material, will be the most stable.  It's available primed at Home Depot and Lowes or any good lumber yard.  

If the lumber you have has not twisted, it can be straightened on a table saw, easier than it can on a joiner.  Have a look at this video.

https://youtu.be/9rS_Q7fu5rM

I used 2x4's and 1x4's the best i could find at a local lumber yard.

feet posted:
D500 posted:

"The tops of the tables are so unlevel they are not usable...." 

Wow. Bummer. I have never had that experience; My layout(s) were built with common 1X4's and ordinary plywood (no L-girders or anything like that) 20 - 25 years ago and I did not run into anything but incidental ups-and-downs. I've only built 2 layouts in my life, though (I don't like doing it).

Your experience sounds like you used really low-grade lumber, but I don't get the impression that you did. I took no special care building mine, beyond common-sense measure twice, cut once. Sympathies. Save the better pieces and go buy some more - checking straightness at the lumber yard.

BTW - I have made 2 major additions to the layout in the last 6 - 7 years - a turntable/roundhouse/engine area and a classification yard across an aisle from it, and the new 1X4's seemed as straight as the "old" ones.

I bought the best 2x4's and 1x4's i could find.

For what it's worth, our layout does NOT have a single 2"X4" in the whole thing. We used nothing but 1"X4" with a 1"X2" stiffener glued/screw on one edge (L girder). Even all the legs are 1"X4" glued/screwed together, instead of 2"X4"s. The whole thing is MUCH stronger.

Was the lumber wet when you bought it ??  Should let it dry out for a week. Pile it up so the ai can circulate it.  Besides going through all the stuff at Lowe's or HD not much else you can do. try to find lumber they just put out and pick the best before others do.  HD seems to have the best around here. I guess I am a little lucky because I have 3 Lowe's and two HDs relatively close. A couple of years ago I built a project and I knew the lumber had set out so I stacked it in the LR. Amazing how much moisture came out.

To me it would be worth the drive to get exactly what you want.  Before HD and Lowes came we had a lumber company with eight locations in the city.   They proudly had a sign at the entrance to the lumber yard that said "You Ain'the Picking ".   Homers and Handy Dan would let you pick.  Consequently, they quickly put them out of business when they came to town.

jim pastorius posted:

Was the lumber wet when you bought it ??  Should let it dry out for a week. Pile it up so the ai can circulate it.  Besides going through all the stuff at Lowe's or HD not much else you can do. try to find lumber they just put out and pick the best before others do.  HD seems to have the best around here. I guess I am a little lucky because I have 3 Lowe's and two HDs relatively close. A couple of years ago I built a project and I knew the lumber had set out so I stacked it in the LR. Amazing how much moisture came out.

The lumber was dry and i stacked it in my train building that is heated. I think you hit the nail on the head. I'd just about bet this stuff wasn't completely dry.

Agree with Johngaltline and Aussteve.  I have built four layouts, and one thing is for sure-you ain't gonna get straight lumber 'cause it doesn't exist.  I agree that you should pick through the stock until you find some that are reasonably straight.  This may take awhile.  The supports are not critical, the tops are.

For my large shelf layout, I wanted the boards to look like the finished wood it would be screwed to.  I sanded, stained, sealed and sanded three times, then triple-doweled them to keep them as straight as possible.  I achieved a success that could be deemed more than reasonable.  Anyway, the bottoms (of the shelves) shine like a baby's butt.

100_0661

100_0745

For the table layout, I simply screwed them down to the 2X4 framework.  I prefer pine to plywood, but agree that plywood is best for the large surface areas.

The shelf has remained, as assembled, for two years.  The table hasn't moved a bit in eight.

Good luck,

Jerry

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Images (2)
  • Right corner, bar area, shelf layout
  • left side, shelf layout

Most of the lumber we buy for train table's would be designated SPF, avoid the F - fir douglass and white fir doug fir is strong but brittle, white fir will twist and turn and is useless for layout building.

P - pine southern yellow pine is junk for our purposes it's mostly used for trusses and treated lumber. White pine is great it's what we use for stair stock and thats why its so expensive. 

S - spruce is good stuff soft strong and stays true. Buy your lumber at a lumber yard that pros use.

Lumber is the same as its always been........... just need to know what to buy.

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