TPC 400

I have the Legacy Powerhouses and use them in conjunction with three of the Legacy Powermasters. I have a dogbone loop with four blocks using two of the Powermasters and a Block Power Controller and one outer loop also using a Powermaster. I do not see the need for the TPC.

Ray 

Ed:

If I understand your question correctly the basic answer is no you do not need a legacy powermaster or a TPC (both do the same thing) to run legacy. You need a AC power source (transformer) and the legacy command base only. The  transformer connects to the track in the normal manner. The commandbase connects to the track through the U post on the back. However I believe if you plan on running conventional locomotives the legacy needs to be disconnected from the track.

With that said, what is not so good about the above is that there is no really fast short circuit protection for your locomotives. The built in short circuit protection on most transformers is usually too slow to protect the electronics on locomotives. If a board is blown you have about $100 repair. You could use something as simple as a Lionel power house lock on (basically a box with a fast circuit breaker in it) that goes between the transformer and track to provide the protection. Or for more bells and whistles you can go with the TPC or Legacy powermaster. Advantages both provide are:

- very fast circuit protection (legacy powermaster is faster than the TPC)

- allows you to switch between conventional and command control quite easily (legacy uses a switch on the powermaster while TPC needs commands from the hand held).

 - allows you to control track voltage / turn it on or off from your held hand

- more stuff I can not recall right now but go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIXCTxf4VW4 to get more info. This is an earlier Lionel video so disregard the powermaster bridge since there are legacy powermasters now.

I use one TPC400 and two powermasters. When the TPC dies I will switch to powermasters only. I like the simple switch on the powermaster to go from conventional to command control plus the faster circuit protection.

Joe

Ed

This remark by Joe is the complete story as far as to why I ditched the TPC's

"I like the simple switch on the powermaster to go from conventional to command control plus the faster circuit protection."

Have fun

Larry

Thanks guys for your useful info.  I had someone steering in the wrong direction.

A TPC allows you to run conventional with a Cab1/2.  If you are running all command control there is no need for a TPC or a powermaster.

William 1 posted:

A TPC allows you to run conventional with a Cab1/2.  If you are running all command control there is no need for a TPC or a powermaster.

Best answer.  I will add if you plan to run conventional engines with your Legacy system buy the Legacy PowerMaster; much easier to set up.  

Also, Ed mentioned he thought the Legacy system needed to be disconnected to run conventional. This is incorrect for conventional engines (or DCS in conventional mode); you control the voltage output of the PowerMaster with the red knob of the Cab2.  In reality, the red knob replaces the transformer handle.  The transformer handle is set at whatever voltage you need to run your command engines (18v).

 Now, if you want to run a TMCC or Legacy engine in conventional (not sure why you would), you will have to disconnect the Cab2 so the engine does not get the signal.  The PowerMaster must be set to command and voltage controlled by the transformer handle.

If you are using the ZW-C which are the new ZW, there are power masters built internally on each of the 4 outputs. I hope someone did not have you buy additional power masters and/or TPC if you have the new ZW??

Ed:

My apologies - I knew nothing about the ZW-C. I just reviewed the product video on the ZW-C. Ted is correct in that with the ZW-C you have no need for a powermaster or TPC. It sounds like depending on what order you power up your command base and the ZW-C, the transformer will start up either command control or conventional. 

So that only leaves the Z4000. However you have two ZW-C's. That means you can control up to 8 different channels (ie power districts) with just the two ZW-C's making the Z4000 unnecessary. From what the video says you can program each of the four power districts with one 180 watt powerhouse each.

If I am not mistaken it also sounds like you can connect up to four 180 powerhouses to each ZW-C and have 10 amps available for all 8 channels on the two transformers. Best check this out though.

Joe

Thanks guys.  This has been very helpful information.

Model Structures posted:

If I am not mistaken it also sounds like you can connect up to four 180 powerhouses to each ZW-C and have 10 amps available for all 8 channels on the two transformers. Best check this out though.

That is correct.  I've connected all four bricks to one and tried it.  If you are actually running all that power through it, it does get pretty hot in fairly short order, so I don't recommend that as a steady diet.

Ed:

Got a question for you with respect to the recommendation to use a TPC. Was it suggested just for the Z4000? If so you may not have been given wrong advice. The modern lionel transformers put out a chopped sine wave while the Z4000 and some other brands produce a smooth sine wave. Lionel has designed their legacy locomotive electronics to use the chopped sine wave. While you will not notice any difference in the running of a legacy locomotive on the Z4000 you may have issues with smoke production and on some Lionel locomotives the electronic couplers may not open.

Both the TPC and the powermaster will transform the smooth sine wave from the Z4000 into a chopped sine wave so you may have been told to use a TPC for this reason. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMR25JoCZiU

Joe

Joe,

I do not plan to use the Z-4000 for Legacy operation.  I have a separate loop for all non-Legacy trains.  Thanks for the info.

Ed

Ed,

   Just so you understand the Z4K works like a million bucks with Legacy, I have 3 of them and run numerous different Legacy & TMCC engines with them all at the same time on different levels of my Christmas layouts.  I also run DCS with them all at the same time.

PCRR/Dave

Dave:

Question - are you connecting the Z4000 directly to your track or going through a TPC or powermaster?

Joe

Joe,

My plan is to use it for lighting and acc.

Ed

Use the z4000 for Accesories & Lights