Using an optocoupler to connect insulated rail to input pin of shift register

In response to a different thread that I started, another forum member (John Galt Line) offered to help me with a project to control Atlas switches and led indicator lights with an Arduino.

 I have written the code for the Arduino, and now I am deciding how to send a signal from an insulated rail to the input pin of a shift register. I am thinking about using an AC input optocoupler that would be activated by either the insulated rail section or a momentary push button on my control panel.

Here is the plan (a crude drawing is also attached below):

  • Connect 1 input pin of optocoupler to 10v AC post of transformer through 330 ohm resistor
  • Connect 2nd input pin to insulated rail section and momentary switch
  • Connect emitter pin of optocoupler to DC ground
  • Connect collector pin to shift register input pin
  • Pull shift register pin HIGH by connecting to 5v DC through 10k resistor
  • Shift register pin will change to LOW when insulated rail or switch is activated

 

I would welcome any suggestions. Am I on the right track or is there a better way to do this?

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For whatever reason I can't read your crude docx but in any event some comments:

- You only need to drive an optocoupler with, say, a few mA.  A 10V AC source thru a 330 ohm resistor into a ~1V optocoupler is overdriving the optocoupler if the output is driving a low-current digital input to a shift register.  That's a peak current of ((10V x 1.4) - 1V) / 330 ohms = 40 mA into the optocoupler.   A 1k resistor is more than enough.

- If you're driving any "modern" digital input, you don't need to pull it up with 10k.  You can lower current by 10x with a 100k pullup resistor.  10k pullups are a holdover from the last century with bi-polar (TTL) inputs.  Anything digital today is CMOS which has negligible input currents.

- By using 100k (instead of 10k) you can use, say, a 0.1uF capacitor across the input to smooth out the AC ripple.  Yes you can "debounce" or smooth the ripple in software but that's just silly if a 1 cent capacitor can do the same.

- Then, if you put that filtering cap on the input you can use a single-ended optocoupler rather than an AC input optocoupler.  AC input optocoupler can run you 2-3 times the cost and are fewer choices.  Of course if you already have a bag of AC optocouplers then never mind.  By using a capacitor as described above it will still filter the half-wave output from a single-ended optocoupler so your digital input still sees a steady DC voltage (no software debouncing).  Then just put in a 5 cent diode on your 10V AC source to feed all your single-ended optocouplers with half-wave DC (so as not the apply reverse voltage to the optocoupler).

 

Here is a circuit I use to generate a clean logic signal to a shift register from an insulated rail:

sensor

Note that I use an RC debounce and feed the signal into a Schmitt trigger buffer to generate a clean transition from a noisy signal. This takes care of the AC ripple as well as intermittent contact between the wheels and the third rail.

Debouncing and filtering could be performed in software, but I originally built the circuit for a microcontroller that had very little memory or processing power, so software debouncing wasn't an option.

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Stan,

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure how much current the optocoupler needed. I will change the resistor on the input to 1k and the pull up to 100k. I already have some AC optocouplers, so I think I will stick with them. 

Professor Chaos,

Your circuit diagram was very helpful. Do you have any recommendations for a specific part that I could use for the Schmitt trigger. I would prefer a chip with 6 or 8 channels because I have several switches to control. I am a novice, and I'm having difficulty deciphering all the specifications and deciding which part to buy.

 

John

I used the 74HCT7541, which has 8 lines, but I'm not sure it's still available as a through-hole part - only surface mount.

My sensor board integrates 32 of those sensor circuits and feeds them into daisy-chained shift registers, so I can read 32 sensors with the SPI interface of the Arduino:

 

ACsensor board in placeacsensor

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I would rather have the through-hole part, so I think I will just order the chip GRJ suggested.

Professor, that's an impressive board that you put together. I'm guessing that there are companies that will make custom PCBs. I may have to look into that so I won't end up with a rat's nest of wires.

GRJ found a good place for getting circuit boards made very inexpensively, but I can't recall the name just now. It was 2 words I think. Maybe he will be by, I'm sure he remembers. Or I will hunt for it tomorrow, I have it here somewhere.

The place is OSH Park PCB Fab WebSite, but note they don't assemble, just make blank boards.  If you want assembly, you need to build enough to make it cost effective, the tooling almost any board starts at $200 before you get any boards, then there's a per/board assembly charge.

Finally have a moment to get back here, sorry for the delay.

Using the optocoupler from track power as described above should work out just fine, but I'm a little concerned if it would work properly under varying track voltages.  Under command operation it wouldn't be a problem, but in any case I prefer a different method.  

I would use a separate DC power source with its ground connected to the outside rail bus of the layout.  When the insulated rail is bridged by passing wheels it would complete the circuit to allow that DC source to power the optocoupler.  This would insure that the LED in the opto is fully turned on and not over driven.  

Something else to note on the output stage is that you will need to use transistors or some other driver between the shift registers and relay boards or LEDs.  The 74HC595 can supply 25mA on one output, but can only supply 70mA total, so if more than a couple outputs are turned on it will over drive the chip if outputs are directly driving relays/LEDs.  

I looked over the sketch posted in the other thread, and if it does the job that's needed it's great.  It is massively less complex than the sketch I have going.  I have some concerns about what is going on there, but will need to test it out with hardware to see  exactly how it is working and if my concerns have any merit.  

The sketch I have going reads all inputs, stores their values, then decides what to do with them before sending out all data to the outputs.  All this makes for a pretty inefficient program, so I'm hoping that what you have will actually get the job done.  

It isn't really a problem yet, but also just wanted to make sure you're aware that the EEProm in the Arduino has a limited life.  Under normal conditions as used in your sketch it should last many, many, years, but under testing conditions it's life can be quickly expended, so just be aware of that and make sure your code doesn't write to the EEProm any more than it needs to.  

Anyway, that's about all for right now.  

JGL

$ This is John Galt speaking.  $

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” 

 

 

JGL,

I hope you don't mind that I am working on this at the same time as you. I initially wanted to learn enough so that I would understand what you are doing, but I got interested in the Arduino and decided to go ahead and take a stab at the program. I'm also becoming comfortable with the components so you won't have to hold my hand through the wiring process.

I have an unused fixed 10V post on my transformer that I plan to connect to the optocoupler.  Do you think that would be okay? It would be easy to switch to another source at this point. 

Here is a link to the relay board that I purchased for testing. It uses a separate 12v power supply to run the relays. The relays are activated by a LOW signal from the shift register, and I read somewhere that this only uses 3 mA of current.  I can also power the indicator lights through a relay to reduce current flow through the shift register. Let me know if you think I need the transistors with this setup. I am going to need some help on the transistor circuit if you think it is necessary.

I was aware of the memory issue with the Arduino. I'm trying to be careful while testing, but I will probably shift the storage to a different memory location once I've finished all the testing. The code is written so that it only writes to memory when a switch is thrown and only reads once in the startup.

Let me know if you need an explanation of anything in my sketch. Here is a basic outline of the flow of the sketch:

1. Read all inputs from shift registers (assumes 4 switches to each register, each switch on 2 consecutive pins)

2. Check to see if a timer is running for each input (a timer running indicates that power has already been turned on to the switch coil and led)

3. If the timer has been running less than 1 second then maintain power to the switch coil

4. If the timer is between 1 and 3 seconds then remove power from switch coil (this keeps down chatter from the insulated rail)

5 After 3 seconds reset the timer to 0 unless the input indicates that the insulated rail section is still occupied or a button is being held down. (This way the sketch will keep checking every loop and reset the timer to 0 once it no longer senses a signal from the insulated rail.)

6. If no timer is running then if a signal is present at an input, turn on power to switch coil and led. Also turn off power to opposite led and start timer.

7. Send all outputs to shift registers. ( 2 output registers for each input register. 1 for switch coils and 1 for led's)

I just want to update everyone on my progress. Today I had a successful test on my layout controlling a total of 8 inputs and 16 outputs (8 switch coils and 8 indicator lights). Here is a picture of what I have now:

IMG_20170214_203507760

It's a jumble of wires now, but I found some solderable breadboards that have the same layout as the larger solderless ones I used. I will be able to fit enough components to control 8 switches (16 inputs/32 outputs) on 3 boards. I should also be able to clean up some of the wiring and add screw terminals for connections to the layout.

Thanks to everyone for your help. You gave me a lot of great ideas and kept me from making several mistakes.

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RTR12,

For the first part of my project I used the circuit proposed by Professor Chaos. 

schmittTrigger

I only made a few small changes. I am using 10V AC Hot as an input so I changed the resistor to 1k from 1.5k. The arrow going to AC common leads to an insulated rail section and a momentary push button on the control panel. The AC is connected to this optoisolator , and this is the Schmitt trigger that I used. It is slightly different from the one drawn above because it inverts the output signal. (When the button is pressed or the insulated rail connected, the signal going into the Schmitt trigger is LOW and the signal coming out is HIGH). I had to use this part because I could not find a non-inverting one with through hole mounting. The Schmitt trigger is connected directly to an input pin of a 74HC165 parallel in shift register.  My Arduino sketch requires that the 2 inputs (straight and diverging route) on each switch are connected to adjacent pins on the shift register. I plan to chain 6 shift registers together on one board so I can handle a total of 24 switches. The basic purpose of the Arduino sketch is to make sure that power is only applied to switch coils for a short period of time even if a train is parked on an insulated rail. The sketch also maintains power to the appropriate indicator light and will remember the switch positions even after power is turned off.

The shift registers are connected to the Arduino by 4 wires. The connections are described in the comments at the top of my Arduino sketch. The sketch outputs data to twice as many 74HC595 parallel out shift registers. These are connected to the Arduino by 3 wires. The data is output in the following order: input from the first register (closest to Arduino in chain) is sent to the last (farthest in chain) output shift register. This register controls the relays for the switch coils. The next to last output shift register controls the relays for the led's. The data output continues in this alternating pattern of coil / led control.

I am using this relay module to receive the output from the shift registers. It does not come with instructions, but the only required connections are the 12v dc power source (2.1mm plug), a 5v connection from the Arduino, and one wire from each shift register pin to a numbered pin on the relay board. John Galt Line suggested using transistors to power the indicator lights instead of the relays. I ordered a few transistors, and I am going to experiment with them. At first glance it seems like they would be less expensive and take up less room.

I am planning to build permanent boards to control 8 switches and try them out on my layout for a few weeks before continuing. Let me know if you have any questions about the details.

John

 

Wow, that was a great description of EVERYTHING, Thank You! I need to do a little studying now and look at the data sheets for the devices. I am getting a little better at figuring those out. Also, I think I may have a couple of the parts already and I might try to breadboard this myself. You certainly picked up the Arduino programming very quickly, as well as ALL of the other stuff too. I would agree that the transistors that JGL suggested would make for a smaller package when finished.

The only thing that didn't come through was the picture, it says 'Image Not Found'. I am guessing that it was the same picture that Prof Chaos posted above? If so I will just use his schematic.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain all this and with good parts links too. I am guessing there will be others interested in this as well. Great project and you got is all figured out pretty quickly too. 

Please keep posting your progress and how your testing goes.

Thanks again for the update on the project with all the details!

RTR12,

Yes. The missing image is the same as the professor's diagram. One thing that helped me was to put each component on the breadboard individually to make sure that I knew how it worked. I then started combining components and testing the results. The optocouplers and Schmitt triggers both have pretty simple wiring schemes, so they were pretty easy. The shift registers were more complicated, and I was glad I spent some time experimenting with them.

Ok, thanks. I will follow your lead and do it the same way. I usually have to stop and think or re-read things a few times for stuff like this anyway. I have used a decade counter chip, but have not done anything with shift register chips before. Thanks for all your help.

First off, great work, John.  I'm glad you are getting things to work and you're not having much trouble with the components or Arduino coding.  

I'm still plugging away at this project as time allows, hoping to make a solution that is useable by anyone that wants to throw the parts together.  

Up until now my progress has been pretty much in parallel with the prototype JohnF has posted above.  I use some slightly different components but the functionality is about the same.  As of now, however I'm changing directions as a "less-complex" idea has come to me.  Before getting into that, I figured I'd share some of the layout and such I had completed.  

SMC01SMSMC01BBSMC01PCB

This was the input side of the project, this board capable of sensing inputs for 8 switches.  It also allows for daisy-chaining of several more identical boards to control more switches.  The PCB layout is unfinished as I came up with a new idea to try out while working on it.  It's also not a real PCB design, but instead intended to be built on perforated proto-board in a common 4.5" x 6" size.  

While working on this project some of my main goals were to keep cost as low as possible, and to make it build-able by folks with little experience in electronics.  I used through-hole components for ease of assembly, and used inexpensive, common, components wherever possible.  All told this input module isn't the worst thing ever, but I think I can do better.  The cost is somewhere right around $12 in parts for this half of the circuit, which isn't all that bad, but it is way more complex for that cost than I'd like.  

On to the controller version 2.0:

I'm going to try out replacing the Schmitt triggers and Parallel to Serial shift registers with a micro-controller.  For about the same part cost (in the sort of low quantities we're using here) an Arduino Pro mini can replace 7 IC's on the board.  All of the information I've found so far seems to suggest it's going to work the way I'm thinking it, but I'll need to throughly test before I know.  I may also look to see if it's practical to use just the ATmega chip instead of a whole arduino board.  If that works out I think I can get the parts cost down quite a bit while also making the entire project less complex for someone to build.  

One other factor I'm working on, though not a top priority, is trying to make the final board as small as possible, while retaining the easy to assemble factor.  If I can get the board small enough, it may be practical to use a PCB fab house to make a run of boards, greatly reducing the amount of wiring needed.  At this point the 4.5x6" design would cost about $25 for a PCB, and considering that is only half of the electronics needed for 8 switches, it seems an impractical cost.  If I can get the whole apparatus to fit on a $10 PCB, however, that may be feasible.  Using surface mount parts would help a lot here, but honestly I don't think that contributes to making things easy to assemble. 

Anyway, I'll keep you up to date with what I figure out over the next couple days.  

Ill finish up with a couple design questions for those playing along at home:  

Is it acceptable for all boards/ parts of this system to be located in one place, with input/output wires running across the entire layout, or is it beneficial to allow modules to be placed about the layout at a slightly higher cost per module?  

Also, is it beneficial to have separate inputs for buttons and the anti-derail tracks?  my thinking is that you would want the switch to ignore remote throws if a train is on the switch going the other way.

JGL

$ This is John Galt speaking.  $

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” 

 

 

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JGL,

Thanks for all the diagrams. I like the way you added the connector to make it easy to chain several modules. 

I have a few questions for you:

1) I see that you eliminated the RC debounce portion of the input circuit between the optocoupler and the Schmitt trigger. I guess that makes sense to me because it really just duplicates what can be done by the code in my Arduino sketch. It also makes wiring easier and reduces the number of components that could fail. Would it make sense for me to modify the code to require a more definite input signal? Right now the sketch smooths the output signal (by holding it on for 1 second) but it will act on an input signal as soon as it is received. I could require that the signal be present for 4 or 5 consecutive loops of the code to make sure that an errant signal does not cause a switch to be thrown. Let me know what you think.

2) I noticed that you are using 10k pull up resistors for the Schmitt trigger inputs. Earlier in the thread, Stan suggested that I use 100k instead of 10k to reduce the current used.  Does that make sense to you?

3) Should I add a decoupling capacitor to the 74hc595 shift registers that I'm using for the outputs?

Here are my thoughts about your design questions:

I think it would be okay to have all the modules in one place except for the relay boards. I would like to place the relays close to groups of switches to minimize wire runs and then just have a 16 conductor cable run from the main modules to each relay board. Do you think that would work?

I was also thinking about the question of what to do when conflicting signals are sent such as when a train is on the non-derail track and the button is pushed for the other switch direction. It seems like that could be handled by the Arduino. I could add some code that would prevent an output signal from being sent if there was already a signal being detected from the opposite direction. It would also be possible to have both indicator lights illuminate to show the operator that there was a problem.

John

 

John,

To answer your questions, 

1, No hardware de-bounce:   I'm unsure of the behavior of your Arduino code and what it would do with a changing input.  In the code I'm working with only the first transition matters, so the "button" can bounce all it likes and it will have no effect on the operation of the rest of the code or hardware.  My timers start from that first transition when a button is pressed, and the code ignores all additional triggers of that input pin until it's matched second input has been tripped.  EX: when you press the button to set a switch to 'through' pressing the button again does nothing.  you first must set it to the diverging direction before it will respond to another through command.   Set up this way allows for parking a train on a switch with out the coil being fired.  

All that said, I'm thinking of adding provisions for a hardware de-bounce in the circuit so that the same board can be used to read inputs for devices other than switches such as uncoupler sections and accessories.  I think the final design will include a hardware de-bounce, but also be designed such that the components can be omitted if de-bouncing is not needed in the intended application.  

2, Pull-up resistors:  100k Ohms should be just fine and would reduce current draw as stan suggests.  10k Ohms is sort of a generic pull-up value and I didn't put any thought into it.  I will probably take some time to optimize the value of several parts before establishing a "final" design.  

3, Decoupling capacitors:  At the speed we are sending data with the Arduino's shiftOut function and over short distances between the Arduino and the shift register of a couple inches, you could probably get away without the caps if you really wanted to.  That said when working with reasonably high frequencies it's a good idea to use them.  If using the Arduino's SPI bus to send shift data then the decoupling caps would become necessary.  For the 5 cents or so per cap I would recommend using them.  


On the board location, also remember you nee 16 wires for the inputs from the anti-derail isolated rails, 16 more from push buttons, and 16 more for dwarf/panel indicators.  That's a lot of wires.  I can get by with 4 wires between each module instead of 18 (16 data, Power, and Ground).  I'm thinking of adding a RS485 chip to each module here, allowing for distances between boards of easily hundreds of feet, but this would add about a dollar to the cost of every module. It also makes the coding and hook-up a bit more complex.  Another option I'm kicking around is adding Bluetooth or similar radio transceivers to each module that would allow all the data to be sent between devices without any data wires, just a power source.  Cost is similar to RS485 at about a dollar per radio, but the code is significantly more complex to make this work, and it may have range or interference issues in some installations.  Over all I like the radio method the best because it allows for really easy installation, but I'm not really decided one way or another. For modules places near each other ( within a couple feet) the Arduino's built in I2C interface would work great, but that requires all the parts of this system to be in one place with over 60 wires running about to various switch machines, buttons and signals.  Over all just thinking about ways to reduce that mess.  

On the second topic, yes, it is not hard to do the code to prioritize the anti-derail inputs.  The difference is that you need a second set of 16 inputs to do this, so a whole extra input board.  I'm thinking of programing for the option, then letting folks decide if they want the feature or not, but posed the question because I thought, " Well, what if I'm over thinking things and no one needs or wants the feature?"  I'll keep thinking it over for now.  

JGL

$ This is John Galt speaking.  $

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” 

 

 

Puttzing around a bit more, and I think I have a working Input Module that should be fairly simple for most folks to put together now.  I'm still working on the output end of things.  

The plan is to use a single $2 ProMini clone to replace the pair of shift registers as well as the Schmitt triggers.  We can also eliminate all but one of the pull-up resistors as the microprocessor has built in pull-ups that can be activated in software.  Just to be safe I'm still using a pull up on pin 13, because the onboard LED can make that pin's internal pull-up act flaky.  The ProMini here will communicate with the main micro-controller over the I2C bus, which allows for high speed, two way, communication between many devices (over relatively short distances).The code running on the ProMini here will be pretty simple.  It will poll the inputs to check if they are active or not and store the results, then when it is asked for the data over the I2C bus it will report the current state of each input.  

The down side of this set-up is that each module will have to have a unique address programed in when it is set up, because every last I/O pin on the thing is being used already, leaving no option for a hardware addressing solution.  I'm thinking I can incorporate some sort of fairly easy to use 'programing module' into the system to make things easier.  Additionally if multiple sets of switch controllers are not being linked together, the default address for each module should work with no problem as they will not be talking to other units with the same address.  

Once again, the PCB layout is optimized for perforated project board, however the layout should work in a proper two-layer PCB as well.  

My testing concurs with the data sheets of the parts in use, and this set up will work with AC track voltage input consistent with normal conventional control of 8VAC to 20VAC, or it will work using a separate accessory transformer for the inputs.  My preferred method is still to use a DC power supply with ground connected to the track common, and I'd recommend using 12VDC on the 'trigger power' input.  

I don't suggest anyone build any of this quite yet, just in case something doesn't work out for some reason.  I do plan on putting together a fully working model before I suggest anyone else jump in.  

JGL-SMC-v02-02_bbJGL-SMC-v02-02_schemJGL-SMC-v02-02_pcb

JGL

 

$ This is John Galt speaking.  $

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” 

 

 

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