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That may take a bit of explaining. I will try to be succinct with my problem...

 

Just bought the Xmas tree today, and I brought up from the garage the two 4'x4' plywood sheets that bolt together and form a very simple oval layout of standard Lionel o-gauge track. The base for the tree sits inside the elongated oval, as well as 10 or 12 little 1950s wooden houses.

 

There are 4 curved sections of track at each end of the oval, and 6 or 8 straight sections that connect them. Very simple. The track sits atop California Roadbed homasote, where the homasote is screwed onto the plywood, and the track sections are screwed onto the homasote. The trains are all postwar Lionel; turbines (681, 682, 2036) and 50s box cars/tenders/hoppers/cabooses that I played with as a kid in the 1970s and I'd been lugging around in boxes until we bought a house 3 years ago. The transformer is a 60w model 1053 that I also inherited. (The big ZW is down in the garage and mounted to the elaborate winter-in-the-mountains layout that's in progress: a sore subject, as I got too overzealous in the planning stage and it has turned into a 2 years & counting project to complete. When I am finally done someday, I fear my young daughter will be grown up and will have little interest at that point, but that's another subject.)

 

Now that the background info is out of the way, here is my problem. I plugged in the transformer for the simple Xmas tree layout that I'm now using for our 3rd holiday season, put the same group of trains on the tracks as I have the previous 2 years, turned it on...and then sputtering. I figured that the 682 hadn't run in @5 months, so it might need coaxing. Nope. I tried my other two locos with the same (lack of) results. 

 

Over the course of the next few joyless hours I cleaned all the wheels on the locomotives, cleaned the tracks with my parallelogram-shaped track eraser, unscrewed the tracks from the homasote to clean the connector pins, and cleaned the contacts for the lighted LTC lock-on connector. The 681 seemed to be the best of the 3 locos, so I focused on that one. It got to the point where running the 681 with the same tender, tanker, box car, hopper, and caboose as I did the previous 2 years with the throttle at full speed resulted in no problems on the straights, a bit of hesitation and sluggishness on one of the two curved sections, and sputtering to a crawl and eventually a halt every time on the other curved section. The loco by itself can *just about* make it all the way around the tracks with the throttle cranked on the 1053 transformer.

 

It's a very frustrating situation, compounded by the fact that I snapped at my 4-yr-old daughter who only wanted to play with the trains while I was trying to figure out why the *#&(@% it was coming to a stop at the same curve (while making it through the other curve not too convincingly).

 

A few things I've noted that hopefully some of you experts can use to troubleshoot my issue:

 

--when the train begins to strain while moving forward, it frequently causes the tender to begin to whistle intermittently;

 

--the transformer gets hot;

 

--the locomotives, conversely, do not get more than merely lukewarm at most, and though the 681 & 682 have been great smokers, they have not smoked at all during this whole painful exercise...I'm guessing due to the locomotive/smoke unit not heating up sufficiently.

 

Transformer bad? Bad ground (though I have checked & rechecked & re-cleaned)? I also keep re-aligning the curve in question where I took it up to clean the pin connectors, but to no avail. Again...I have used this exact layout for the past 2 holiday seasons, and this transformer set at about 60% has powered the set with no problems.

 

Very frustrating that I am unable to troubleshoot such a seemingly basic problem, and I'm hoping someone might have advice.

 

Thanks!

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Your issue involvoles all three engines. I would first connect the transformer wires to your engines to see if they run well. If all goes well I would check out the track. Inspect the center rail card stock for damage causing a short. You can also put all 6 or 8 sections of the straights together and see if you have a problem. If you do then remove one section at a time and see if the problem goes away. Process of elimination until you come across the bad track section. What you described screams a track problem to me. 

 

Big assumption on my part is you have tried to run only the engine on the track, no tender and drawbar is not touching the outer rail and your still having a problem.

I suspect that you have several issues going on.

 

I think a sixty watt transformer Is rather small for a 681 or 682. IMHO, it's barely large enough for your 2036. The transformer getting hot is also a good indicator.

The problem with an undersized transformer is probably compounded by dirty track.

In addition to cleaning your tracks with a track eraser, I suggest some additional cleaning with a solvent. I use a small amount of pure mineral spirits on a tightly woven cloth. (Be certain to dispose of the cloth properly, and do in a ventilated area).

 

I would also clean the locomotive drive wheels and pickup rollers with that cloth.

 

How difficult would it be to disconnect your ZW and try that?

Your 1053 transformer does have an internal circuit breaker. If you had a short it is likely to trip. Plus, its likely that the train would not move at all with a short.
Carefully feel around the track for a hot spot. Slide your hand along slowly, feeling for the track to be getting warmer, because a hot spot can be hot enough to burn instantly. A hot spot could be a short, or a high resistance (poor) electrical connection.

 

 

Last edited by C W Burfle

Thanks for all the replies. It's still too early here for me to start making noise, but I can confirm that there are no hot spots; I checked for those last night. I didn't note any missing pieces of center rail insulation. If that were the case, wouldn't there be sparking/tripped circuit/train not running at all, as someone mentioned?

 

I am hoping it's a simple case of dirty track and or drive wheels/pickup rollers, though I cleaned those pretty well (two and three different times). The volt meter is an excellent suggestion so as to deduce the culprit here. I am embarrassed to admit that I am terrible with electronics, and I am not very quick with the volt meter. What voltage should I be looking for?

 

The fact that the transformer--being run with the throttle at full power--gets hot but yet the locomotive doesn't: what problem does that point to? From my experience with trains, not only the bottom of the engine, but the locomotive shell gets quite warm after just a few minutes of pulling cars around the tracks, but yet the bottom of my 681 is just barely warm to the touch after 20 minutes of circling the tracks and being aided through the problem curve in question.

 

Thanks again.

Also to clarify, I did use the 1053 for the past two holiday seasons with all three of these locomotives and a string of tender/caboose/3 other cars with no problems at 60% or so throttle. (Not to mention doing same as kid all through the 1970s, though that was a very long time ago.) Now at 100% throttle the locomotive alone makes it around the loop, but not with more than 2 or 3 cars attached.

 

Is it possible that the transformer is failing/windings are corroding, or would the transformer simply not work at all?

I would try checking the track advice that Stew1957 gave and put s few pieces together, place one engine on 4-5 pieces, change/add track on until you can see if all your track is good.

 

CW mentioned the mineral spirits, also good advice. If you don't have that, I am a big fan of Goo Gone which you can use it on the track, locomotive drive wheels and rollers. No fumes and citrus based. Before everyone disagrees, your locos are all postwar, mine are mostly prewar. As long as you don't have modern engines with traction tires, the Goo Gone is fine. Use a white cloth if you can and check how much gunk you are getting off.

 

Keep everyone posted and show pictures when things are running.

 

Tom 

Last edited by PRR8976

 

quote:
The fact that the transformer--being run with the throttle at full power--gets hot but yet the locomotive doesn't: what problem does that point to? From my experience with trains, not only the bottom of the engine, but the locomotive shell gets quite warm after just a few minutes of pulling cars around the tracks, but yet the bottom of my 681 is just barely warm to the touch after 20 minutes of circling the tracks and being aided through the problem curve in question.



 

Not a common problem, I guess it's possible that your transformer is going bad. You can try disconnecting the transformer from the tracks, and plugging it in for the 20 minutes you mentioned above, and see how warm it gets. DON'T LEAVE IT UNATTENDED. It might get a little warm, but it should not get hot.

The Lionel 5C test bench had a "Watt Loss Test", which put a 60 watt household bulb in series with the primary of the transformer being tested. The bulb should not light with a healthy unloaded transformer. It is interesting to watch the bulb get brighter and brighter as the transformer is loaded up. (I am not suggesting you try to set up this test)

 

I would have some concerns if a locomotive that I was servicing got quite warm after only a few minutes of running.

 

Last edited by C W Burfle

With transformer disconnected from the track and nothing on the bare track, check the OHMS between the center rail and either outside rail. If the reading is infinity, the transformer is the culprit; any other reading says there is a bad section of track. To find the bad section, disconnect the circle into halves and test each half. Repeat the halving process and identify the bad section. Worst case scenario for number of tries  is half the number of sections.   

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