VINTAGE NY CENTRAL

Ben

 

I believe this was a builders photo taken at Westinghouse Pittsburgh after completion of electicals. All the EP-1 photos i have seen before delivery seem to have both Pantographs raised. The New Haven ran with Rear up only.

Thanks for the tip Bob. I'll search out a copy of that book.

Bert

Question.......

When a passenger train came into Grand Central in the diesel era, did they change to electric engines in Harmon......Or, did the E & F units take them all the way in?

 

Peter

Peter

 

In the days of the New York Central and New Haven through 1968, diesel trains on the new york Central would have an engine change to a P class or T class motor at Harmon on the Hudson Line and North White Plains on the Harlem Line. On the new Haven, Fl-9s would be used on run through trains since they were dual mode. When Penn Central came about, and the New Haven subsequently being merged into PC, the electric motors were retired rather quickly and all Trains originating in non-electrified territory began to use the FL-9s. Eventually Amtrak acquired some of these units from the New Haven Pool and operated long distance trains into GCT The FL-9s were used into the early 90s when Metro North and Amtrak were equipped with the dual mode Genesis engines. About that time, Amtrak trains were rerouted into Penn Station . The Genesis engines still call in GCT for Metro North.

Today we visit Spuyten Duyvil. In the New York Central's electrified areas, the West side line diverged from the Hudson River line at this location. The line going down the West side was reached via a swing bridge which still is used today by Amtrak Empire Service, The lake Shore Limited and the Maple Leaf . The connection to the Hudson Line had a Wye so that it was accessible from both directions on the Hudson Line. Using the Wye at Mott Haven, trains coming down the Harlem Line could also reach the West Side line .

 

New York Central operated a number of Mechandise and Express trains, Meat reefer trains and Milk Trains down the West Side Line. The R motors handled these trains and they all went through Spuyten Duyvil. Here is a line map showing the lines in the New York Central electrified division:

 

 

The swing bridge was fairly low to the water as it crossed the Harlem river. Usually it was closed when a train needed to cross. Here are some bviews of the Bridge.

 

 

From the air, we see the Swing Bridge in the Foreground with the highway Henry Hudson Bridge above and behind the Spuyten Duyvil. In the 1950's the toll on the highway bridge was 10 cents.

 

 

Looking at grade level from the Upper Manhattan side of the Spuyten Duyvil crossing

 

 

 

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Amtrak heading into Penn Station with a New York Area train. This route has been in effect since the early 1990s

 

 

 

A Former New York Central post war electric in Penn Central colors is leaving the area through the rock cuts.

 

 

 

A Northbound Metro North Train Poses at the Spuyten Duyvil station with the swing bridge in the background.

 

 

Hudson, Harlem Division & Putnam Division.....there is lots of good reading about......I wish someone would do a comprehensive book on the West Side Division's history and development.

 

Here are some books I own and can recommend:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about someone writing a book on the west side branch? I'll buy the 1st copy.

 

Peter

Ok lets focus a bit on the Marine aspect of the New York Central. The railroad had extensive operations in New York Harbor. There were carfloats at 60th street on the West Side and across the Hudson at Weehawken. Besides transferring cars accross the Hudson, There was interchange by floats with other rail lines in New York harbotr as well as terminal lines such as the Brooklyn Eastern district and Wallabout Bay. The New York central also operated a number of pier stations throughout New York City on both the Hudson and the East Rivers. Floast, barges and lighters also loaded/unloaded ships in the harbor. The Ferry to Weehawken ran from two terminals, one at West 42nd street and a second downtown from Cortlandt street. Here a a few shots of New York Central tugs in the harbor.

 

 

No 27 with a stick lighter

 

 

Maybe a NYC float but certainly a grand photo of the liner United States leaving on a transatlantic crossing.

 

 

Rival PRR had extensive marine operations also. Heres a PRR boat on the DeBrosses street ferry to exchange Place. This was one of the first ferry routes to shut down that I remember in the late 1940s.

 

 

And we need to show the LIRR presence in the harbor even though this is a New York Central Themed thread. Here is the LIRR Meitowax on the East River,

 

LIRR....thanks so much for the NYC tugboat pictures!!  I just finished a project where I built a small barge and darned if it doesn't look similar to the second picture in your post above.  Love the photos!!

 

Thanks,

Alan

You are welcome Alan. We have a lot of prototype photos on this thread but it would be good to see some modeling of tugs, barges etc. So I hope that we can see a few photos of your model here on this thread. And if anyone else has some models that fit in, lets see some photos of these on this thread as well

Lighterer  Lehigh Valley I believe

 

 

Lionel Tug  Santa Fe  UGhhhh!!

 

 

Some custom tugs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A ten-wheeler pressed into freight service.

 

 

 

 

Peter

 

My apartment opposite Yankee Stadium !!

Sixth floor, we watched the games.

(See red below)

 

The Polo Grounds are just across the river where the New York Giants (baseball) played before moving.

I went to a Mets game at the Polo Grounds in 1963. Jim Hickman hit a grand slam and prevented Roger Craig from losing his 19th in a row!

 

We took the #4 and walked across the bridge.

 

Peter

Here are a few photos of the New York Central at High Bridge (past and present).

 

 

2013 - Looking north (Harlem River on left side of photo)

 

 

 

2013 - Looking south at High Bridge (from on top of the High Bridge)

 

 

 

1906

 

More Polo Ground pics here:

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...06#18183468221530506

 

Peter

The Central serviced passenger coaches in the Bronx at its Mott Haven Yard . This is where the Hudson Division amd the Harlem Division came together. The Yard had a Wye in it connecting the harlem division to the Hudson Division. A train running South on the Harlem division could access the Hudson Division directly. Milk trains coming down the Harlem division could reach the dairy plants on the West side line using this wye. It is still in place today.

 

 

Just South of the yard. New york central train with a P class motor

 

 

 

 

A New haven Train just about same spot. The Hudson Division breaks to the left while the Harlem line is in the foreground

 

Great shots of Mott Haven!

 

Is the building in photo 3 with the arched windows Cardinal Hayes HS?

 

Peter

Ben....what kind of barge is that in your first picture above?  Is it a custom model and if so any info on it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Alan

At the Western End, The Central arrived in Chicago for most trains at the LaSalle Street Station in Downtown Chicago. New York Central used the station until 1968.Eva Marie Saint and Cary Grant arrived at LaSalle street after sharing a room on the Twentieth Century Limited  in North By Northwest.The Station was used beyond that by the Rock Island and I believe a commuter station METRA  still is on the site today. It serves what METRA calls the Rock Island district. You can still go to Joliet from LaSalle Street. 

 

Here is the entrance to the old LaSalle Street Station in New York Central's Heyday.

 

 

Busy Morning for the NYC as the Century ran two sections into LaSalle Street station on this day

 

 

And Here is the Afternoon Lineup. The Century and the Commodore are on the far right while other NYC varnish including New england States and the Wolverine are in the foreground. hese were the G;ry days of the Great Steel Fleet.

 

 

The Rock Island Commuter trains used this station when it was demolished in 1981. This Photo is interesting because it more or less replicates train time for the Great Steel Fleet  at LaSalle Street station but Rock Island Style. a bit different from the NYC days would you say.

 

 

METRA operates the Rock  Island district from the current station on this site. Looks like the same equipment from the 1981 Photo.

 

 

Nest Stop Englewood maybe!!

On the Harlem Line , we have a Steam Powered local doing the mail run. RPO about to pick up a couple of sacks of Mail . Station is Chappaugua and could be a NYC Pacific at the point. Photo looks to be mid 30's or so

 

Re: "Great shots of Mott Haven." The building with the arched windows is the Bronx GPO at 149th St. & Grand Concourse.

 

The NYCRR & PRR tugs were unique in NY harbor. They had tall stacks & wheel houses. The other railroads involved in lighterage and car floats in NY had much shorter stacks and wheelhouses because they had terminals along the Harlem River in the Bronx and there was low clearance under the bridges from Manhattan to the Bronx

Peter,

 

Cardinal Hayes is the building just to the right of the arched window post office building in that photo. 

 

The Hudson division tracks pass alongside the south side of the building (between the PO and the school). Only in 12th grade English class did I ever score a seat right by the window with a great view of the multiple crossings that trains clattered through all day long. A good thing that was the only one, or my education probably wouldn't have been the same!!!

 

Jim

The New York Central and Pennsylvania RR had large fleets of Steam Tugs . These boats had tall stacks to facilitate draft for the combustion process. The PRR did have some diesel powered tugs. These boats as well ast the diesel tugs of the New Haven, Lehigh Valley , Erie, Jersey Central and Lackawanna did not need tall stacks and had low stacks. Some boats had low Pilot houses which allowed them to operate on the Harlem river without the need to open bridges along the river. Some of the PRR diesel tugs are still working on the Mississippi. Mcallister acquired many of the NY harbor RR owned diesel tugs.

Thanks, guys........this has been a spectacular thread!

 

Peter

What a great thread !! Thank you

 

Clem

Going back to trains behind the first NYC S-1...
I did pick up a copy of the Staufer book "New York Central's Early Power: 1831-1916" at Bob's suggestion. Great book. But no good side shots of the cars pulled by the first S-1.

Anybody have more suggestions about where to find photos showing the text on the side of the cars in this pic?

 

 

Thanks,

Bert

Bert you might find what you are looking for in these links

 

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/NYC1.htm

 

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/NYC2.htm

 

http://www.canadasouthern.com/.../NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

Thanks for the links LIRR Steamer. I think I'll be able to figure it out from there.

From the CSRR site: Prior to 1934 - Cars painted Pullman green - roof, underbody and trucks painted black. 5" Roman style gold leaf lettering ( headend cars used yellow lettering). Dining cars, coaches and headend cars lettered NEW YORK CENTRAL.

I may try to find appropriate decals in HO, scan and rework to make artwork for rubber stamps...

Hi Bert

 

your pre 1934 writeup is i believe what you are looking for.A car which had sleeping accommodations such as sections, cars with bedrooms and observation cars would have been owned and operated by the Pullman Company and lettered for Pullman . This might also have been the case for Parlor cars in this period.The colors would have matched the NYC cars.

 

Grays on the New York Central probably first appeared with the 1935-36 Mercury. New lightweight cars arrived in 1938 for the 20th Century Limited and some other top trains such as the Commodore Vanderbilt and the Ohio State Limited . These were in the grays  Smoothside , those without fluting, cars purchased in the postwar period were also gray except for commuter coaches. In 1956, New York Central took over its sleeping car operations from Pullman so the Pullman name was dropped from cars which carried the Pullman designation.

 

The Blade Lettering style first started to be used about 1936, appearing on the T series electrics.Electric motors were always black until the Pclass motors were rebuilt in 1955 for GCT service from CUT service. They were painted in the Grey Lightning stripes at GE's factory. T motors also started to be repainted in the Grey Lightning stripes around this time.

 

Hey Sno Is that you checking out Marilyn's back

 

HA HA U CAUGHT ME.

This is a fantastic thread....thanks very much to all of you that keep it going....so much interesting information here!

 

Alan

The New York Central Main Line ran in the street in Syracuse . Here is a shot of some NYC varnish on the streets of Syracuse in the early years of the twentieth Century.

 

Jake Gyllenhaal looking a little scruffy there. I wonder if that's a movie script he's reading.

A few more from Weehawken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Always loved this Flash Gordon looking motor

 

 

 

Ok Ben has taken us across the Hudson for some West Shore action. We were able to access the West Shore from New York City by taking the New York Central Ferry from West 42nd st to Weehawken. The New York City terminal was a busy place even before the West Side Highway was built in Manhattan.

 

 

 

Heres a New York Central Boat waiting to make a crossing

 

 

 

Over on the Weehawken side, the terminal was sandwiched in between the River and the Pallisades. You could get to the terminal in New Jersey by means of the Public service Trolleys. Here is a car coming up the road from the terminal. It has a poster for Pallisades park. who remembers that place from your youth. This photo is very late 1940's . If you look closely down at the yard below, you can see a lackawanna Baggage car . Its painted in the Maroon and greys.

 

 

 

The Railroad right of way leaving the station went through a tunnel through the Pallisades . Here is a shot of one of the bores. It kmakes for a unique style of RR Tunnel Portal to model on your layout.

 

 

 

In the immediate post war years into the early 1950s, there was lots of New York Central Steam at Weehawken. The Boston and albany J 2 Hudsons and the tank engines ( K Line model) were sent here to handle commuter runs. In the photo, there is also a unique transfer diesel shifting some passenger cars. The trolley is in this photo as well.

 

 

 

The central had a line which went south of here to interchange freight , I believe it connected with one of Ben's favorites , the Hoboken Shore RR. So for you ben, a little Hoboken Shore action with a pair of 44 tonners. Note there is a swifts woodside reefer in the train consist as well. No Ballantine car I afraid!

 

 

Great pics Larry  The Hoboken Shore RR had a float  Woner if that Swift reefer is headed for their High Line location.