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As a person that started out with h.o. trains.I never thought there would be trains that sounded like the real thing.Or locomotives that can pull long trains.The detail in some of the layouts are just out standing.As for myself I would have never thought of the trains we have now and the things they can do.One thing I am surprised was the toy train market.There are more choices nowadays.But there seems to be something for every one.If you like the postwar stuff it there.If you like the more up to date stuff its there.But what say you.

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How much stuff people buy.  Many of them with no place to run their trains.  Just piling up boxes for the sake of buying.  One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me.

Last edited by William 1

A few things:

-Friends.  I'm starting to make some good friends in the hobby.  I wish more train enthusiast lived in my area.   I'm still running trains by myself!  LOL.

-Talent.  I'm amazed at the talent level and creativity of the individuals in this hobby.   I don't have any of it!  I really enjoy seeing the layouts that people have created.

-Cost.  I know....this one has been beaten to death.   But I was not prepared for the cost of the hobby.  I'm still shocked at the price people pay for trains.     

-Arguing.   I've said this in previous posts on this forum.  I'm always amazed that grown men argue over toy trains.  It baffles me.  LOL.

Matt01 posted:

Grouchy people.

Honestly, I was surprised. I don't understand it. I don't see it in any other of my endeavors in life.

On the other hand, there is a camaraderie of really  nice folks .... just having a lot of fun with model trains.

(Maybe I'm the one being grouchy ..... for saying this? &nbsp

Matt, this has surprised me as well, and I've been around toy trains and other train collectors all my life.  After all, we all have toy trains in common, right? I was at a show this past Saturday and everyone I met was really nice except for one guy. I reached out to shake his hand and he turned and walked away. Lesson learned: there are good people and not-so-good people in the world, and our hobby is no different. Focus on the friendly people you meet and ignore the rest. 

Last edited by BlueComet400

That these years are the Golden Age of Toy Trains product wise even if the total amount of Model Railroaders has dropped. That and the lack of quality in them. I have never received so much brand new defective product in my life as now and the trains far surpass everything else we own.    Why it is even worse than the Navigation system in the car!!

The rebirth, competition and innovations that Mike Wolf and his team at MTH have brought to our hobby are the utmost surprises since the 1940s in my opinion. The most spectacular MTH accomplishments are the Rail King line of trains, the DCS digital electronic operating system, and the rebirth of tinplate trains.

Every time I run several trains in a prototypical fashion on the single track mainline of my O-gauge railroad without the gobbledygook of relays and wiring, it reminds me of the fantastic capabilities / wonders that DCS provides.

Thank you Mike Wolf and the MTH Team!

Last edited by Bobby Ogage

I have been in the hobby all my life.

I never would have guess there would have been a RIFT in the Force! That is two operating systems that have divided the hobby and the products that people purchase.

The amount of new available product! I thought O gauge was doomed to the way of the collector dinosaur market of the 90's, never able to produce detailed scale items with great operating characteristics.

BIG SOUNDS! Well its about time! How about a version of BTI's rolling thunder for O gauge trains for crying out loud...

"Vince the Vulture" is still around. This is the guy that give 2 cents on the dollar for widows of husbands who had large train collections. He peruses estate sales and closed out hobby shops... then totes the items to local train shows charging top dollar on the stuff with a real raspy voice and grumpy attitude... I was growled at by this person when I was a young kid for touching items on his table. I was hoping after a 20 year sabbatical in HO this guy would be long gone.

Scenery and Buildings - Wow the buildings have come along way in details and lighting w/o having to put hours into making kits. And the Scenery products are amazing... sure beats the died sawdust and kitty litter I had to use when I was a kid...

The invasion of electronics and phone apps... Circuit board technology is great. AS LONG AS ITS PLUG AND PLAY! But nothing has been standardized, so this hobby has allot of frustration to work through.

The short time that kids would enjoy it. By the time kids are 7 the magic is gone with all the phones and electronics... too bad... I could not get enough trains right through high school. Then there were just more pressing priorities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last edited by J Daddy

The boom to bust! I left HO in the 1980's to try to find my childhood Marx set, and rode a rocket powered up escalator of MTH, Williams, Weaver, K-line, and 3rd Rail introductions of variety in new prototypes  that peaked when the BIG TWO went off on their unreliable electronic tangents, and the tent was up behind the Billy Budd. Now l am falling down an elevator shaft, and variety, with three of the makers above, have disappeared, as has the tent. I was in HO from the 1950's when small makers had tiny kit ads in MR for brass and other models of prototypes that have never appeared in three rail. No wonder we are still getting run over by HO.

J Daddy posted:

I have been in the hobby all my life.

I never would have guess there would have been a RIFT in the Force! That is two operating systems that have divided the hobby and the products that people purchase.

The amount of new available product! I thought O gauge was doomed to the way of the collector dinosaur market of the 90's, never able to produce detailed scale items with great operating characteristics.

BIG SOUNDS! Well its about time! How about a version of BTI's rolling thunder for O gauge trains for crying out loud...

"Vince the Vulture" is still around. This is the guy that give 2 cents on the dollar for widows of husbands who had large train collections. He peruses estate sales and closed out hobby shops... then totes the items to local train shows charging top dollar on the stuff with a real raspy voice and grumpy attitude... I was growled at by this person when I was a young kid for touching items on his table. I was hoping after a 20 year sabbatical in HO this guy would be long gone.

Scenery and Buildings - Wow the buildings have come along way in details and lighting w/o having to put hours into making kits. And the Scenery products are amazing... sure beats the died sawdust and kitty litter I had to use when I was a kid...

The invasion of electronics and phone apps... Circuit board technology is great. AS LONG AS ITS PLUG AND PLAY! But nothing has been standardized, so this hobby has allot of frustration to work through.

The short time that kids would enjoy it. By the time kids are 7 the magic is gone with all the phones and electronics... too bad... I could not get enough trains right through high school. Then there were just more pressing priorities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What Jdaddy said!  :-)

This has been implied above, but I will never cease to be shocked by the seriousness with which some people treat their hobby.  Most people don't take their jobs as seriously.

It's a hobby:  enjoyment.  Now, whatever floats the boat is enjoyable, but I cannot see how raising the level of stress is enjoyable.

They're toys--"If it ain't 1:1 Scale and generating revenue, it's a toy"--but even this simple recognition of the role that a hobby plays will set come folks off.  Why play should be offensive or embarrassing eludes me.  According to that sharp observer of human beings, James T. Kirk, "The more sophisticated the mind, the greater the need for play" ("Shoreleave").

Nobody seems to mind playing ball.  Why be so concerned about playing trains?  Is it that nobody pays us to?  Is it prestige?  Frankly, it seems to me that the skills learned with trains are at least as valuable to the individual involved as those learned playing ball. 

The corollary to this seriousness is the contempt with which  some who play trains look down upon others.  I shan't identify groups because hobbyists in all of the various flavors are guilty to some degree or other.  Snide comments and disparaging nicknames lessen the enjoyment, not increase it. 

And I will admit that I can be guilty, too, but I hope to continue grow out of it.

-The "entitlement" attitude which is so pervasive in the hobby, though it is certainly in the general culture as well. It is simple arithmetic because the HO and N scale markets are so much LARGER, that there is more financial incentive and benefit for more variety in product. Given the sub-divisions in the O gauge and O scale market, it is amazing how much product actually IS available, yet people are continually unhappy. I thought a hobby was something you were suppose to enjoy, and that would make you happy?

-The various train forums should be (and sometimes are) a place to share pointers, tips, creative ideas, etc. about the hobby. But - no fault of the forums themselves - they just as frequently have become a place of grumbling and complaining. Funny how some folks don't mind telling the train companies how to operate, and yet don't want anyone telling them how to run their trains - and then throw a fit over forum moderation.

If you are so unhappy with the types of products available or unhappy with the fewer existing train companies, start your OWN train company and show the other companies how much more you know about the market. You'd better have at least a minimum $100M of your own money... no bank will loan you the money: Start your company in the USA with a brand new US facility and offer a complete full product line of items never before made by anyone else in your first year. Put a lifetime warranty on your products too. Oh and sell them for far less than everyone else. And then you'll learn the hard way what so many other train makers have stated, that what people "say" they want and what they actually "buy" are two different things.

Some other miscellaneous observations:

-If China is the problem as many maintain, then why is it I have never had a single defective product? Not a single one. And they're made in the same place. Quality is better than some of the last US made trains.

-Lionel didn't move overseas to selfishly make gobs of profits. They moved overseas so yes, it would decrease their bottom line costs BUT THEN they PUT THAT MONEY into NEW TOOLING (of mostly high end scale products). Don't believe me... compare Lionel catalogs before and after the move to China.

-If dies and tooling are such a minimal expense as some think, then why aren't the train companies making everything requested here? Must be an intentional conspiracy. Hint: If the consumer cannot afford the new train products, maybe the train companies cannot afford to make everything either. And before anyone mentions Menards, they're not a train company, and they're not doing tons of new tooling. Rather they're using existing or duplicated dies of larger O gauge items - walking the middle ground between O scale and O gauge. Their structures don't require injection molded dies and even with them, they're walking the middle ground to please the greatest number of consumers, meaning O gauge versus O scale.

-"Kids today are too interested in their cell phones and video games." Well... who bought them the cell phones? Maybe the parents, because maybe they don't want to take the time and responsibility to be parents. Nevermind (depending on what statistics you read) that nearly half of this nation's children are growing up in a single parent household (IE: no dad). Given the choice, what is a single mother going to purchase... a train set or a smart phone?

When I was a kid and I stayed after school, I went to a pay phone with a dime and called home for a ride. When was the last time anyone here saw a pay phone? It is almost necessary for kids today to have a cell phone, as sad as that is. And as long as you're buying them a cell phone, for the money, it might as well be a smart phone.

- Another sign of the times, for thought: When I was a kid, Dad bought me a Lionel train and built ME a layout. They were my trains on my layout, and sometimes Dad played trains with me.  Back then the trains were marketed to sons and their fathers (smart move too).

-Today, the trains are marketed to the fathers. And if Dad buys his son a starter set, it is most likely to be played with ON DAD'S LAYOUT so the child won't ruin DAD's expensive trains. It's no longer the son's layout... it's dad's layout. And if the kids are being annoying (as kids often are) dad can say, "Why don't you go play with your video games." Yep, the train layout isn't the kid's, but the video games are!

Little wonder we're seeing what we're seeing. Of course, it's so much easier to blame the train companies (and especially Lionel, who gets the lion's share of blame and criticism) then to point the finger at ourselves.

 

 

The longevity of Post-War trains.  For some of us, we're still playing with toys that are approaching seventy-five years old.  The mere fact that these mechanical marvels still run and operate on layouts is surprising to me.  Compared to other toys, our post war trains are pretty amazing.   

William 1 posted:

How much stuff people buy.  Many of them with no place to run their trains.  Just piling up boxes for the sake of buying.  One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me.

Model railroading can best be described as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby but I've seen cases of severe mental illness in a good portion of enthusiasts. The "I must have everything mentality" was far greater years ago and things seem to have settled down to reality in recent years. I was sucked into the vortex early on but then decided that at some point, the question of how much does one really need to run a layout must be answered. After 30+ years of collecting, very selective buying for my Eastern roads layout has become the new norm. Its still a surprise that the hobby has lasted this long but people have been collecting things as far back in history as one can tell.

The amount of whining on the forum. Products, delivery, quality, York, electronic systems, correct fuel tank location, etc.    

But that's what most of the internet forums, tv talk shows and "panel" discussion groups are anyway.   Why would o gauge people be any different.. 

 

And as previously mentioned, the longevity and durability of most pre-1996 trains.

Passion for hobby vs your job.

It comes as no surprise to me that the folks have greater passion for their hobby than they do for their job (typically). The comic character Dilbert didn't arise because just a few companies appeared to be led by "clueless" managers. It is because it is most likely the norm.

Save your passion from that mess. Your job, or at least my job, was how I made it economically possible to live the life I desired to live. Or said in a common way: "I don't live to work. I work to live."

Once we see how futile it is to exhaust our passion in our job that makes the possibility to live, we have plenty of passion in reserve for our hobby. 

Especially, if the model railroader is seeking scale, the passion exhibited will occasionally offend some; especially those who don't respect fidelity to scale. 

Some hobby model railroading to escape stress from fidelity to the details and order of life. Some hobby model railroading to re-channel their passion of order to details that they can control.

Our hobbies may very well be the most passionate activities that we may be involved: be it model railroading, show or race cars, firearms, etc.

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

...

-The various train forums should be (and sometimes are) a place to share pointers, tips, creative ideas, etc. about the hobby. But - no fault of the forums themselves - they just as frequently have become a place of grumbling and complaining. Funny how some folks don't mind telling the train companies how to operate, and yet don't want anyone telling them how to run their trains - and then throw a fit over forum moderation.

If you are so unhappy with the types of products available or unhappy with the fewer existing train companies, start your OWN train company and show the other companies how much more you know about the market. You'd better have at least a minimum $100M of your own money... no bank will loan you the money: Start your company in the USA with a brand new US facility and offer a complete full product line of items never before made by anyone else in your first year. Put a lifetime warranty on your products too. Oh and sell them for far less than everyone else. And then you'll learn the hard way what so many other train makers have stated, that what people "say" they want and what they actually "buy" are two different things.

...

 

William 1 posted:

... One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me.

These two posts are a perfect example of what surprises me some days... and the posts are representative of several folks on the forum who only hear what they want to hear.  Thankfully, we don't rely on them to represent what we say on these topics, because they do such a poor job of interpreting and paraphrasing things.

When we provide thoughtful analysis of price/performance among multiple toy train importers, they're put off by the fact that anybody would dare criticize their Big "L" as if the company could never do anything wrong.   Yet they conveniently miss the posts where we give kudos when kudos are due.  But no... that doesn't fit their agenda to disagree, so they quote selectively to support their twisted point that we're "complaining" rather than providing "market observations".  You don't need to agree with the observations, but PLEASE don't twist what is said either.  If you haven't noticed, you're communicating the same level of cynicism and negativity you're claiming of our "observations".  But I guess you don't see it that way.  Why would you?

Same is true when we comment on product deliveries.  You gripe that we supposedly complain incessantly about product delivery schedules.  Yet you conveniently miss -- or don't choose to remember -- the posts where we exude much-deserved "adda-boys" to the likes of Scott Mann for constantly reminding us how toy train importers SHOULD be communicating with their consumers.  In other words, we're not "complaining" about products being late... rather we're taking certain management styles to task when they act like they don't know what's going on or even care to communicate ANYTHING to their consumers.  But hey, I guess you also missed posts where we encouraged somebody to not worry about shipping schedules at all... because they don't mean anything anyway.  Rather it would just be better to have importers tell us what's been produced in China THIS month, 'cause then we'll have a better idea what's gonna show up in the States in 2-3 months.  Similar to what Scott Mann does for the products his company produces.  

And so it goes...  if you want to provide "back-handed" commentary, at least have the professionalism to "get it right" by not cherry-picking our posts just to be disagreeable and spin your own story.  We see enough of that in the real world these days with CNN's new brand of "journalism" (if you want to even call it that). 

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
Dan Padova posted:

The longevity of Post-War trains.  For some of us, we're still playing with toys that are approaching seventy-five years old.  The mere fact that these mechanical marvels still run and operate on layouts is surprising to me.  Compared to other toys, our post war trains are pretty amazing.   

Good point Dan - I took a Pre war American Flyer Hudson down off the shelves the other day with its freight cars and took a spin around the layout for a few hours. And it still brought a grin across my face.

Who would have thought this 82 year old toy locomotive would have lasted so long!

Dennis LaGrua posted:
William 1 posted:

How much stuff people buy.  Many of them with no place to run their trains.  Just piling up boxes for the sake of buying.  One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me.

Model railroading can best be described as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby but I've seen cases of severe mental illness in a good portion of enthusiasts. The "I must have everything mentality" was far greater years ago and things seem to have settled down to reality in recent years. I was sucked into the vortex early on but then decided that at some point, the question of how much does one really need to run a layout must be answered. After 30+ years of collecting, very selective buying for my Eastern roads layout has become the new norm. Its still a surprise that the hobby has lasted this long but people have been collecting things as far back in history as one can tell.

Dennis, EXCELLENT commentary on the real message.  Most of us here LOVE this hobby, and more than a few times we read posts of enthusiasts buying lots of goodies for their eventual dream layout.   At the same time, not having an actual layout makes it difficult to govern "how much stuff" is truly needed.  I've been down this road a couple of times, and I've tried to caution folks the best remedy is to build a layout!!!  For some of us, that's not always easy to accomplish.  But once there's light at the end of the tunnel in terms of layout construction, it really helps throttle back the heavy acquisition phase of this hobby.    It can actually be quite freeing...

As for the back-handed commentary, I've come to accept that comes with the turf... and that's their problem -- not mine.

David

Matt Kramer posted:

Boxcars that aren't even scale with a price tag of $80+.

Cabooses that that are nearly all plastic and hover around the $90 mark.

That's what surprises me.

This has nothing to do with scale modeling....but the boxcar comment reminded me of something that shocked me over the Christmas season.  My kids love comic books so I checked out the Lionel Justice League boxcars.  The cost was $80 to $90 for a really cheap boxcar.    I thought that was crazy.

David, I was not even thinking about you when I wrote my above post. Nor do I have any specific agenda. And I have made comments where I either disagree or don't understanding something about Lionel product or their decisions. For example with the pricing of the traditional rolling stock, which is almost on par with the scale rolling stock, yet the traditional items are far less costly to produce.

For me, it comes to a point where I can make posts about it, or let my "wallet doing the talking." I haven't bought a brand new separate sale piece of Lionel rolling stock in over 4 years because of the higher prices. Lionel is free to do as they wish, or see fit, just as I am free to either purchase or not purchase their products. And I've said this before. I do think Lionel comes in for more criticism, because they are the big name in this 3-rail hobby.

There are some things you post David, where I agree with you, such as the problems with the various companies shipping schedules. They are inviting criticism with the inaccuracies and lack of communication. As you have pointed out elsewhere, Scott Mann at least communicates with his customers about this. Built to order: They're ALL doing it. 3rd Rail calls it "reservations," but it's still the same thing outside of Lionel having a dealer network that can order as they see fit.

You can agree or disagree... it won't change anything. Even with the rest of the product line, Lionel is closely monitoring production numbers. Which is why we occasionally see shortages of track or accessories... normal stock items. But it's not just Lionel, nor limited to the 3-rail train world.

And I also agree with you that there is a glut of product available. But the size of the market is shrinking, which plays into that. And then the question you have raised, how many trains can one person have? Well, that's not for me to answer, but the ramifications of that do play into both the new product and secondary markets.

Every indication is still the traditional O-gauge line is the bulk of the 3-rail customer base. Yet the scale market is still important for Lionel - as they themselves have said. The scale market is smaller, but with a more active, consistent spending customer. The traditional market tends to be more seasonal. So what. It's just the reality of business.

Just as much as there will NEVER EVER be the variety in scale 3-rail O as there is in either HO or N scales. No amount of wish lists or grumbling with change this. So every scale has its' advantages and drawbacks.

If I do have any agenda I suppose it would that people should enjoy the hobby more. Which by reading a good many posts here, I obviously am not the only one who wonders about this. Despite what is not made, there is more than enough that has been made.

Agenda... that's kind of funny. I've never even thought of you as having an agenda. You're a smart guy David. If anything I've thought of you as bit like a dog who has a bone in its' mouth and it is not letting go of it... at least without a good fight. But until you, I or anyone else owns a train company or a model train forum, we're most likely not changing anything. We can make suggestions, as you did with the Buy/Sell forum here - and there was a change. But for the majority of the time, only real decision we really have as consumers, is whether we are going to buy, or not.

 

I had a horrible series of experiences with a HO modular group in the 90s, leaving me so disgusted with the hobby that I considered I had left it for good, other than tinkering with G scale the way some here play with 3-rail (sometimes running on the floor, but mostly keeping stuff in boxes) until I realized I’d never have the room or money to build a layout that I could be happy with in G.

I got back once Bachmann came out with my beloved ET&WNC ten-wheelers in On30 (though I can’t recall the year, I think I got my first one about 2007 or so?) . In the years between those two points, I pretty much had to re-learn everything about the hobby as so much had changed in that timeframe. Among them (good or bad):

  • All the pre-built stuff. You hardly need to modify anything to look other than toy-like anymore. Some stuff even comes pre-weathered!
  • The level of detail. Anyone who recalls the early Blue Box Athearn (like myself) will be surprised how much better the stuff is out of the box now. No flimsy wire handrails to install and paint anymore. All the things you had to buy and put in place are usually already in place now.
  • Generally, the fellowship from modelers. I had such bad experiences with model railroaders in my youth, I gave up on most of them. I designed and constructed my layout largely in a vacuum, but have now found the fun in sharing it in op sessions, photos and words online, and in writing about the hobby. I’ve met some very good people who have helped me a great deal with the layout, details, operations concepts, and even finding things I’ve been looking for. This was NEVER my experience when I was living elsewhere and into the hobby in my 20s.
  • People look down on narrow-gauge and more than a little on On30. I didn’t see that coming. But considering how it’s a platform for whimsy for a lot of modelers, I sort of get the reaction, now. When I pitched my layout article, every magazine I pitched it to showed interest except Model Railroader. I know they still don’t think much of the gauge and was the last hobby publication to stop calling it, “On2 ½”
  • The people who consider it more ‘playing’ with trains, looking down on people who want to have more detailed layouts and equipment. I knew it worked the other way around as I saw plenty of HO guys sneering at the 3-rail types (“Indy 500 with flanged wheels” was a common way the HO folks described the 3-rail layouts in my modular club) but I didn’t expect it from the other direction. I’ve gotten more than a few derisive comments from 3-railers on my own layout, many claiming I couldn’t possibly enjoy what I’m doing as I’m such a stickler for historical details. Again, I tell them to stick, it, too.

 

Dennis LaGrua posted:
William 1 posted:

How much stuff people buy.  Many of them with no place to run their trains.  Just piling up boxes for the sake of buying.  One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me.

Model railroading can best be described as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby but I've seen cases of severe mental illness in a good portion of enthusiasts. The "I must have everything mentality" was far greater years ago and things seem to have settled down to reality in recent years. I was sucked into the vortex early on but then decided that at some point, the question of how much does one really need to run a layout must be answered. After 30+ years of collecting, very selective buying for my Eastern roads layout has become the new norm. Its still a surprise that the hobby has lasted this long but people have been collecting things as far back in history as one can tell.

Good points, both.

I was never a ‘collector’ as such as I only ever wanted what I needed to run on the layout I always wanted. If it wasn’t useful, there was never a need for it. The only things I have that’ll never run again are a Lionel HO Freedom Train 4449, and my original Lionel O27 loco from my first train set ever.

“Gotta have one of everything” is a common mindset in all collecting hobbies, so I’m, not as thrown off my that than others are.

As for mental illness, people still generally think model trains are a sign of an issue upstairs. I went to a counselor a while back to try to work through some nightmares going back to my Army days and I was asked what I do for fun. I explained the layout and was immediately told that model trains was a SURE sign of a mental disorder of some type. I got up, told her where to stick it, and never went back. Funny, I hadn’t had any of those nightmares since then!

Last edited by p51

After getting back into the hobby after a long hiatus of many years, I am still amazed by the advancements in the O gauge hobby. The selection of O gauge trains, track, accessories, etc. available today, command control, the advancements in details on the trains and other items available and probably just about everything in the O gauge hobby that we have today. I am still overwhelmed by all of this after being back in the hobby since 2011.

Last edited by rtr12

The variety available to consumers is still the most surprising to me. I cannot believe a profit can be made making so many different models times so many different road names. I imagine Lionel, MTH, WBB have a better handle on this than I appreciate, but it's got to be an inventory forecasting and planning nightmare. Then you've got to deal with road names of fallen flags plus modern road names like CSX, BNSF, and the like. Then you've got all the toy like Thomas and Chugginton. The supply chain challenges for this relatively small industry have to be immense, even if it had perfect quality.

"Grouchy people.

Honestly, I was surprised. I don't understand it. I don't see it in any other of my endeavors in life."

You talkin' about me, bub?

Seriously, I do agree. About half the people I interact with in this hobby, especially face-to-face, are pretty unpleasant. Especially at train shows. "Lack of manners" is the only way to describe it. It hasn't affected my attendance. Yet.

The other half are fine.

==============

But here's a good example of an unpleasant and self-righteous attitude, posted above. It may not make sense to you - or even me, though I am trying to thin my collection out - but it doesn't have to. You are not in charge.

"How much stuff people buy.  Many of them with no place to run their trains.  Just piling up boxes for the sake of buying.  One guy keeps saying he has more trains than he can run in a lifetime.  Yet he spends a considerable amount of his time fussing about pricing, delivery times, etc. ad nauseoum.  That makes no sense at all to me."

Last edited by D500

*Not much surprises me anymore, but until I discovered the internet, train magazines and model train forums, I thought a layout was suppose to be 4X8 with grass paper and Plasticville.

*Again, with the above discoveries, all the friends I've made in this hobby.  I had a few local friends that had trains but had no idea there were so many more to be made out there.

*It is astounding to me that so many hobbyists refuse to acknowledge that there's no wrong way to enjoy this hobby.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Model railroading can best be described as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby but I've seen cases of severe mental illness in a good portion of enthusiasts. The "I must have everything mentality" was far greater years ago and things seem to have settled down to reality in recent years.

Thank you for the diagnosis Dr. LaGrua! Oh so now im crazy huh, you think im off my track do you?  You think I got a hotbox in my head huh.?  Well let me tell you something you don't derail when your block signals are working. And im running on time and on schedule you understand ?!! On schedule!!!!  Now get off my right of way or i'll call the railroad bull!!

They're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
To the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time, and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
and they're coming to take me away ha ha!!!

What surprised me was how the hobby sucked me in, and how it gets in your blood, and stays there.

I was into trains as a kid. I put them away and went off college, I was out of train for 15 years. Then I got married,  started a career, had the first kid at 30, built a 4x4' under the tree for the "baby's first Christmas", got out the old trains, then started buying new ones, than made a permanent 4x8' layout, it has escalated progressively from there, and that was 20 years ago.

Now, the kids are more or less disinterested, one is 16 the other 20, but not me though. I have a 24'x16' basement layout, modular club member (Trackers), round robin club (Northern Central High Railers), TCA, and more.

When the train hobby bug bites, it bites hard.

Last edited by Craignor

Before I started watching the forum, I always thought the layout was the primary focus, then buy trains to fit your scheme.  That was how I thought from reading books and magazines as a kid.  Buying mountains of product with no theme or focus seems foolish to me, especially when you 'have more trains than you can run in a lifetime'.  Then going on about how you 'vote with your wallet' by buying at less than than MSRP.  Saving money is smart, but you are not voting with your wallet.  Lionel is getting their nut, they sell to the dealer.  You are not hurting them.  The dealer gets less profit out of the deal, not Lionel.  I don't need to write long sentences and go round and round with the same old lines written a different way.  My point is simple.  Why would someone who has more trains than he can run in a lifetime buy more?  There is something behind that I will never understand.  The OPs question was, what surprised me the most.   Frankly I was and still am shocked at how much stuff people buy.  What do I care what you do with your money?  Not a thing.  Have fun with your model trains.  Don't get grouchy.  What is the point in that?

Last edited by William 1

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