What happened to MTH Ready to Run sets

Just speculation, but I think they've chosen to focus on the experienced hobbyist in the marketplace.  Their set strategy was to include all the bells and whistles (PS2 then PS3) and higher quality rolling stock and locos.  But the price point was unattractive when your competition has both brand recognition and set prices that are $100-200 less for fewer features and lesser quality.  Lionel's LionChief sets now finally have most of the capabilities of MTH's former Railking sets for lower prices, and the remote/command system included in the set are superior (radio frequency vs. infrared). 

To fully exploit the PS3 advantage, a consumer needs to spring for a few hundred dollars more and DCS.  Apparently the market is not supportive of that price differential and brand recognition disadvantage.  Just some guesses of why things are going as they seem to be going.

I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers. I just looked at the2016 ready to run catalog and counted 14 sets not including the tin sets.  

I agree that they are nice sets and ️a stellar value 

Just out of curiosity, I counted 28 O-gauge sets in Vol1&2 RTR Lionel catalogs.

Per my LHS, which is only about an hour from MTH's facility in Maryland so we tend to get a lot of "info" as we just go there to get stuff, not get it shipped to the store (and I believe MTH also confirmed this in writing or verbally at York last April) there was an issue getting transformer components this year, hence only a few "true" train sets. I would imagine track and transformer sets will return in full next year. 

Silver Lake posted:

I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers. I just looked at the2016 ready to run catalog and counted 14 sets not including the tin sets.  

I agree that they are nice sets and ️a stellar value 

I get the same count.  And if I were buying an RTR starter set, I'd buy MTH before Lionel.  They look better.

IC fan posted

 And if I were buying an RTR starter set, I'd buy MTH before Lionel.  They look better.

 Absolutely.  You get a lot of bang for your buck with an MTH set.

Dunno about starter sets, but I was pre ordering MTH headend passenger cars for various Western road names, but the last couple of years, they kind of dried up. Just seen the big roads, UP, ATSF....

Per conversation with Jim Osborne, he said that MTH is discontinuing them, I don't know if they will do them again, but it seems they want you to build your own train like your own set except you would have no DCS Commander or track.

I heard it was lack of transformers. That's not from a "reliable source" though.

As for sets Lionel offers a wide variety of choices without having to pay for DCS, something that most set customer may never use.

Jim 1939 posted:

I heard it was lack of transformers. That's not from a "reliable source" though.

As for sets Lionel offers a wide variety of choices without having to pay for DCS, something that most set customer may never use.

Lack of transformers?  Thar's like not making cars because you don't have enough engines!

I was disappointed they went the "build your own train" route.  I actually purchased about 7 or 8 of them over the past 5 years.   My local LHS was disappointed as well.  They said that they sold a ton of the MTH sets at Christmas.   It sounds like they are going all Lionel for Christmas this year.

Lack of transformers for RTR sets.......per MTH and local dealer....................rogerw.

IC fan posted:

Silver Lake posted:

I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers. I just looked at the2016 ready to run catalog and counted 14 sets not including the tin sets.  

I agree that they are nice sets and ️a stellar value 

I get the same count.  And if I were buying an RTR starter set, I'd buy MTH before Lionel.  They look better.

Might have missed it, but looks like MTH "starter" sets begin at an average of 1k!   Thinking the term "starter sets" fits Lionel a little better in the 150- 399 range.....

Train Nut posted:

IC fan posted:

Silver Lake posted:

I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers. I just looked at the2016 ready to run catalog and counted 14 sets not including the tin sets.  

I agree that they are nice sets and ️a stellar value 

I get the same count.  And if I were buying an RTR starter set, I'd buy MTH before Lionel.  They look better.

Might have missed it, but looks like MTH "starter" sets begin at an average of 1k!   Thinking the term "starter sets" fits Lionel a little better in the 150- 399 range.....

I don't see how $449.95 equals $1000.00.

Rusty

Like i said- "might have missed it".   But still seems Lionel has a better selection of reasonably  priced sets...

MTH RTR sets got me into 3-rail.  Sure Lionel RTR sets are cheaper.  There's a reason for that. 

Maybe, but not all people have unlimited funds to waste on a train set....

The transformer part is also true, 

Mike Wolfe has always said that the starter sets were his business card or calling card into more additional Rolling Stock and Premier and railking engines I myself have bought several of the starter sets some railking engines Premier engines and so on so I think that's a good strategy my only problem is that they haven't changed any of the Christmas engines in the sets in years and I think they need to make something a little more attractive because the Lioncheif engines to me are just more attractive but that's my opinion. However on that note MTH has the market on the Halloween and Christmas diesels with the ES44 IMHO.

JOEG

When Mike Wolf says there will be no more RTR sets, then I will believe it. I would not compare MTH Rail King RTR sets to anything Lionel has in RTR sets. Rail King RTR sets are by far the best value in O-gauge trains.

It's not entirely relevant whether one personally finds the price differential of MTH sets, with their superior quality rolling stock and locomotives (and inferior quality track), and greater future potential for command control (at least for DCS) worth it.  Those are obvious facts and not arguable. The question is whether MTH is changing its approach because transformers are unavailable and/or sales growth is unavailable in this  competition for the beginner's dollars.  Sets are primarily bought as a first entry into the hobby is my guess and what most people in the industry seem to believe.  And most sets are probably never added to, except for perhaps some more track and rolling stock. 

Another reality is that since the introduction of LionChief, Lionel's sets have pretty much the same or better functional capabilities,  with remote command control and forward compatibility with future command control layouts,  as PS3 locos without DCS (not included in sets).   Has this dented MTH's sales of traditional sets (probably a distant second to Lionel set sales in any case)? We'll never know.  But it seems a realistic consideration, and a possible explanation for MTH's new approach. 

We'll know whether the transformer story is the whole explanation if next year there is a return in the RTR catalog of the traditional sets.  Lionel sets no longer include a transformer, which keeps shipping costs down, and LionChief provides instant compatibility with future DCS/Legacy/TMCC command layouts, as well as with conventional layouts.  This is a potentially important advantage in the marketplace and may be influencing both sales and MTH's thinking on how to target both new and experienced hobbyists who want a "set."

"Rail King RTR sets are by far the best value in O-gauge trains."

I think this is true, but only for some people.  The caveats include that one has to have a budget of at least $300-400,  and/or one plans to ultimately build a real layout. Those are necessary to benefit from the particular value/strengths of the traditionally available Railking sets.  If one is looking for a train to put around the tree,  or one's initial budget is under $300, and/or one wishes immediate remote operation compatibility with a friend's or club's conventional or TMCC/Legacy layout, the Lionel sets have some value and advantages.

I have always admired the MTH approach of "future-proofing" the starter set purchase by including command innards and good quality rolling stock. With the exception of their remote, I always thought that their starter sets were a good value despite the higher general price tags.

That view, however, is skewed by the fact that I am already firmly entrenched in the hobby and don't like the idea of any new purchases not being compatible with my current command system.  Thus, as a Legacy user with a roster that is Lionel heavy, I don't have much desire to run out and buy any Lionchief sets due to the incompatibility. 

I guess if the target audience is a one-time "toy" buyer and rather than a lifetime hobby buyer, then the lack of forward compatibility means little.

"then the lack of forward compatibility means little."

I presume you mean that LionChief and LionChief Plus cannot be operated using TMCC and Legacy? Because to my way of thinking there is no true incompatibility. You merely need to use the LionChief or LionChief Plus (or the forthcoming universal remote) to control the corresponding locomotive, and a remote is included with every loco or set.  To me this means "compatible."  In fact, LionChief and LionChief Plus locos are, to my knowledge,  the only locos,  by any manufacturer,  that can operate in remote, command mode upon opening the box,  and are compatible with any existing conventional or command layout.  This is an enormous forward looking gain of functionality.  Whatever a purchaser chooses to do in the future, his or her LionChief or LionChief Plus loco can operate in command, remote mode on that future layout without any additional equipment or modification.  This is not true of any other product from either MTH, Lionel or others.

I think what folks would like, I imagine --  is that Legacy would see the lionchiefs. I would like this so I imagine other would like it too.