What should I do with My Engine?

I would tell mth to replace it their quality control is garbage.

I would call MTH and get a Return Authorization "RA" number and send it off to them. It's a new engine and they should take care of it.

If it's out of warentee, gut it and replace with DPDT and bridge rectifiers. If it is, return it.

Sorry for your luck. Send it back to MTH and hope that they get it right this time.

Hi Tim / Did you purchase loco new or used?

If you are going to send the loco to MTH for a Return Authorization, ask them how long this repair will take?  Try to pin them down on a turn around time. How much time did they have it in their shop for the last two repair jobs?

Can you post a photo of this loco, the MTH web page says there is no photo available?

Gary, The two repairs before were the tether, it was replaced the first time and a wire came disconnected inside the connection to the tether. It was in the shops for 2 weeks for the first repair and one day for the 2nd repair. It was my Christmas present this year(2015).

Here is a photo

I would repair it.  Worst is boiler board and motor.  This should still be under warranty.  G

I agree with the masses, send it back and have MTH make it right.  There's no excuse for that many failures!

GGG posted:

I would repair it.  Worst is boiler board and motor.  This should still be under warranty.  G

Hi G

I am MTH end user, MTH has on their web page has two definition for service. Can you elaborate on these definitions?  Which MTH center should a MTH end user use & why?  (See definitions below). Is your name and or company name link to the MTH web page?

Thanks - Gary

Gary, the Authorized Service Centers (ASC) do not get reimbursed for labor on warranty repairs, they just get the parts required.  That's the reason for the distinction, if you buy the item from the shop, they have an incentive to fix it for you.  However, if you bring an item that you bought elsewhere for warranty service to an ASC, they would be working for free to service it.  I personally recommend folks that purchased elsewhere to send them to MTH directly in that case.  The only exception would be a fairly minor repair for a good customer.

Go where you bought it first.  They can repair or exchange. If they can't or won't, send to MTH for warranty.  Turn around is around 3 weeks now.  ASC have no obligation to fix a warranty item not purchased from them.  NASC do and they receive minor credit for repair work, but I am not sure how many still actually exist. If there is one close it is an option.

The question to ask is does the repair center stock major parts and do component level repair.  If no, best to go to MTH or they will have a wait period of 3-6 weeks to get parts once they identify what is wrong with the engine, or you will be paying for a new board when an item could be repaired at the component level for less.

This is the reason I carry a full range of parts including boards, motors, harnesses, and other consumables for an engine repair.  Odd ball stuff can cause a delay, but I can usually let some one know up front, and explain the wait.  That saves a lot of customer frustration.  G

Send it to MTH for repair and mention about the 2 previous repairs made to the engine, type a letter and give the repair service numbers or shipping invoice numbers along with the engine and see what MTH does. 

Be nice and ask questions, you will get more out of the repair people if you are polite.

Also don't bash any company on here as they can't defend themselves and secondly it's not polite to bash companies on the forum. Give the company a chance to work with you!

It seems like quality control in general, for everything, has declined since the 1970's.

Lee Fritz

Tim.  did MTH do the two repairs you mentioned?  Do you know Jim Osborne?  He is is your area.

I hope this is not "hijacking" the thread as I am also wondering What to Do With My (MTH) Engine.  If it is not proper here I hope moderators will delete this post.

I purchased via mail order an MTH Challenger.  It was DOA with nothing happening.  Sent it back to national MTH (ie paid for shipping) and received it weeks later.  This time it did fire up for about a minute but only in conventional and it kept tripping my circuit breaker.  Then it completely died and still trips my transformer circuit breakers. 

MTH says I need to send it back again.  Since I paid for a new engine I really don't think they should get a third chance to supply a working engine as I would end up with an engine that has been shipped cross country at least 5 times.  Am I unreasonable in asking for a new engine?  If they won't supply a new engine is it reasonable to return it to the mail order place I ordered it from for a refund?  If it is going to be so finicky I think I will stick with simpler engines that I can purchase locally although there is almost no MTH stock carried in Houston hobby shops. 

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Tim.  did MTH do the two repairs you mentioned?  Do you know Jim Osborne?  He is is your area.

Jim looked at that engine and all other engines that are broken, he offered to fix it again. He said he would do it with uncertainty with MTH with returns, because when Jeff was there, he did it differently than what Jason is or might be doing.

George, Jim will take a look at it, so since it is under Warranty, I will let him do it.

Just to refine this a little.  The bad draw bar could have been a defect at factory, or a solder joint was broken when attaching engine to tender.  Those things happen.  The plug coming out of the engine drawbar is not really a factory issue.  It can be cause in shipping.  Or rough handling.  I see this a lot, and unfortunately repair techs at LHS don't seem to catch it?

So I would not classify Tim's train as a Lemon needing 3 repairs yet.  2 yes.

Jim,  Request MTH to pay for shipping.  Not sure what went wrong, but they can fix it right even if something was missed the first time.  It happens. Just pack it securely in the original box, with a good outer box.  G

Hi Tim & members.  The reason I am interested in this thread, we in the Metro Detroit area lost Wild Bill's Trains last week and I am looking for a new L.H.S. and repair center. Below is what I found by using the MTH Service center locator. 110 mile drive or next day by UPS or USPS.  I have been to this train shop in the past.  It is a first class model train shop. About a two hour drive. I will also hit a Waffle House, we do not have these in Michigan. Like the fried T-Bone steak.  Click on screenshots to enlarge. Click here to learn more and also. Click here to learn more.

I am not sure that discussing a quality problem with an O gauge train and what to do next constitutes bashing of a particular supplier.  I hope one of the purposes of the forum is to exchange information, which is what I see being done in the posts above.  Exhorting other people to not do business with "X" is quite different.  The important thing is whether or not "X" is monitoring this forum, their own quality/warranty data, and any other avenues to glean market information about their products and those of their competitors.  Their desire to improve customer satisfaction and quality, are key to competing in the free market system.  Ask the American auto makers.  The dollar cost of dealing with a quality problem increases 10x at every stage of the product life, from component to circuit board to board test to sub assembly to final assembly to customer to end of warranty period.  The cost of losing customer confidence or market share is immeasurable. 

I think it is good to see the free flow of information and people helping each other.  After all this is America.  Right?  

I have known Tim for several years and have repaired several of Tim's engines.  According to my records the repair history for George Washington Ten Wheeler is as follows.  Tim brought his engine to me on December 26, 2015.  I immediately determined that it was a defective wireless drawbar, which I did not have in stock.  I ordered a replacement drawbar (plus additional drawbars stock ).   I received the new drawbars on January 9, 2016 and at Tim's request returned his repaired engine to him at a Club meeting on January 14, 2016.  Several days later Tim called and said that his engine had stopped running.  When I looked at his engine, I discovered that the engine harness  had disconnected from the wireless drawbar.  (Possibly I did not firmly connect the harness when I installed the new drawbar on January 9th.)   Therefore, I would say that the engine has only been repaired once.

Last Friday, March 25th,  Tim called me saying that his engine was smoking, from someplace other than the smoke unit and smelled burnt.  I told him, if I were to guess without looking at the engine, the boiler board was shot.  Tim and I made arrangements to get together the next day, Saturday, March 26th.  I have a boiler board and could replace it, since the engine was still under warranty.  When we met on Saturday, Tim had decided that he wanted to return the engine to MTH for replacement.   This morning Tim emailed me that he would make arrangements to get the engine to me tomorrow. Tuesday, Match 29th.

To be continued,

Hey Tim,

I thought I saw a question addressed to me earlier this morning but I can't find the thread.  Just wanted to let you know that you can cancel your preorder at any time.  A lot of times the manufacturers change the dates on shipping an item due to China/Korea parts, pricing, labor changes.  Feel free to call up Joanie and tell her you spoke to Ken Jr.   Canceling should be Hassel Free and Easy!   I hope that was you who sent a message this morning I cant seem to find it anywhere.

The problem with Tim's engine was a pinched wire that had shorted and burned.   I completed the repair of Tim's engine last week. 

this type of thing is terrible. Quality is still very much an issue all around

Bob C.

Robert Coniglio posted:

this type of thing is terrible. Quality is still very much an issue all around

Bob C.

The original poster stated that the model had been repaired two times, earlier. So,,,,,,,,who do you suppose was/is responsible for the "pinched wire"? 

Hot Water posted:

Robert Coniglio posted:

this type of thing is terrible. Quality is still very much an issue all around

Bob C.

The original poster stated that the model had been repaired two times, earlier. So,,,,,,,,who do you suppose was/is responsible for the "pinched wire"? 

We can "suppose" until the cows come home, but the reality is we, he, or MTH will never know how, when, where, why the wire was pinched; so what is the point of supposing?  This is not meant as an excuse for accepting possibly poor quality control that is always a hot point of discussion on this forum.

Good news is that Jim O. reported that he fixed the problem and returned the loco to Tim.  It would be nice if MTH (or dealer) would offer to reimburse or credit Tim (or any other customer) for shipping the 2nd or more return of the same problem engine.

You know, I keep hearing people say how MTH has horrible quality control and I really do not find this to be the case. Ihve somewhere around 50 MTH locos and I haven't had any significant issues as of yet. I have aslo sold several hundred locos thru the hobby shop I work at and I have only had issues with a couple. Id say MTH has quite good quality control

Tim, When you call MTH for a RA number make it clear that you returned it twice already. A couple years ago when my Z4K was returned to me and the same problem came back a few weeks later I told them that I didn't think I should have pay the shipping to them again and they e mailed me a Fex Ex label to return it to them again.

Gene H posted:

Tim, When you call MTH for a RA number make it clear that you returned it twice already. A couple years ago when my Z4K was returned to me and the same problem came back a few weeks later I told them that I didn't think I should have pay the shipping to them again and they e mailed me a Fex Ex label to return it to them again.

Gene, Did you read any of the post above?  Tim's Train is fixed and it did not really have multiple problems caused by the manufacturer.  G

This is Jim H and my Challenger is on the way back to MTH for a second time and I had to pay shipping again.  I briefly considered returning it to the hobby shop but they had no more engines of that style.  Finally I just broke down and paid to send it back again.  

I purchased the Challenger because it is so similar to the one my Son and I made a video of during its excursion across town during Houston's last Superbowl (10 years ago?).  I hope it runs flawlessly when it comes back.   The Challenger is the most complex engine I have as I usually run "set" engines.  My only other complex engine is a Lionmaster T1 Duplex and the chuffing sound keeps quitting (I just attach a sound car to it for chuffing).  The Duplex has been back to Lionel once for the chuffing and is broken again. 

In at least one way Engines are like motorcycles.  The amount of joy / fun one gets out of running even the most simple cheap Engine is far more than the increase in joy one gets out of running a very expensive engine.  Ie a $100 engine is TONS more fun than not having any engine.  A $1,000 engine is a bit more fun than a $100 engine, but definitely not 10x more fun and perhaps not even 2x more fun.

So in the future I am going to stick with multiple simpler engines and limit my expensive ones to just the T1 Duplex and the Challenger.  No Big Boy in the future for me.   Unless of course someday a Grandson and I make a video of us chasing one!

Just my two cents...

After a decade of buying everything in sight I am paying the price as boards and engines begin to fail.

I have replaced four or five boards, just a hair out if warranty, from both manufacturers at my expense and also had a slew of engines go back for repairs the were dead out of the box.

My policies for sanity are below.

1.  Postwar Lionel purchases only.

2.  I thought rolling stock was safe until I found part of my collection with warped under frames and thus smashed shells.  Thus...no more modern rolling stock.  There is no rescue for a reefer or passenger car with a metal frame twisting under it.

3.  When the engines go bad...no more boards..one had been replaced twice and now the sound board is bad again.  Engine is three years old and ran less than  three hours.  So I am done replacing the boards at my expense.  They become display pieces.

4.  I buy craftsman building kits and enjoy them tremendously.

This all used to be an inconvenience when I was working...now that I am retired I can no longer chase my tail trying to make up for lack of QC (or integrity) of modern manufacturers...the money isn't here.

John

All this drama reminds me of when I had some AF engines and cars. Always some niggling problem somewhere creeping up that was annoying.  That is why I run post war Lionel now. I  don't want to be annoyed by a hobby.

Tim,

I am glad your engine is fixed and can be enjoyed.

Jim O.,

Thanks for seeing this through and helping the customer!

I ran the engine on Sunday for 3 Hours no problems, thanks for your input.

yes. this is frustrating. running classic Postwar is a way out. but not many of us can resist the high tech modern stuff.

Bob C.

In follow up to my previous post about my MTH UP Challenger.  I decided to take a chance and paid to ship it back to MTH again.  This time it came back and does seem to work.  Seems during the previous warranty repair a wire was pinched in the frame when re-assembled.   Now that it runs, it is REALLY nice.  The whistle sounds very much like the prototype the UP steam program has.   I just hope my model keeps working for a Looooong time!  This will be my last complex engine for a while, perhaps forever.  I am sticking to simpler and/or set engines for the foreseeable future.  

I think that all you guys should try to avoid all these stressful issues with your busted locos and just sell them to me, cheap!