This issue belongs to all of our train mfgs. The market is not great, we all know that but the lack of newly tooled items especially locomotives have almost if not nil.
They can make items from old tooling but maybe one engine per catalog steam and diesel could be made also.
I'm really tired of seeing the same old thing catalog after catalog---give us something new, please.
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I'm ready for something new...something big. Would like some new rolling stock too.
I don't think that is completely true. New this year from MTH was the ES44AC in Rail King Imperial line. I just got one and it is fantastic. Especially the Hybrid model with the charging lights effect.
Well, in the 2014 model year Lionel came out with new tooling for the USRA Heavy Mikado, a historically important locomotive that many of us have been wanting to see for years. On the diesel side, I do believe the Lionel E8/E9 is new as well, although I could be wrong on that one. Lionel also added the 86-foot modern boxcar.
MTH announced two new Euro steamers: the German 2-10-0 and the French 2-8-2. We haven't seen a new freight car from MTH in a while, but I continue to hope. Rumors also persist that MTH is about to announce a scale GE 44-tonner, which Williams also did recently.
We aren't buried in new stuff, but there's more than you would think from the title of this thread.
maybe the new Amtrak sprinter from someone? I've wondered who is going to be the first to do it and when/if it will be done in O scale.
Well, I for one am very pleased that Lionel is investing money for additional tooling to produce the Hi hood version of the GP30 specifically for Southern and N&W fans.
Exactly what is there out there that you feel needs to be produced and if it are, would it sell enough to justify large tooling expenditures.
Paying for four sets of new tooling per year as you suggest would probably wipe out any chance of profit for either MTH or Lionel. We have so much to be thankful for when it comes to available engines and rolling stock that it is hard for me to imagine how we could complain.
Happy railroading,
Don
It was a few years back when I heard this number tossed around, but I recall the folks at Atlas-O quoting $150K-$175K as a general number for new tooling expenditures with respect to brand new models of rolling stock like the CZ passenger cars.
From there, it's all about the numbers and ROI. So depending on the production quantities, it may take one or two production runs to pay for the tooling. That's not anyone's salary yet -- just covering the new tooling costs, etc... Now add in salaries and other corporate overhead, and it's easy to see that it takes a few production runs to really start turning healthy profits on a new model.
Given the unsteady economy on this side of the ocean, combined with often unpredictable and challenging overseas labor issues on the other side of the ocean (which has gotta make coordination of new product development a nightmare), it's no real surprise that embarking upon new tooling projects nowadays seems a last-resort type of scenario. 
David
As for MTH, I think just sticking any old name on anything has run its course.
Give us other variations of cars and structures that haven’t been made going forward.
Marine related items, subway signals, simulated electrified 3rd rail kits, trucks seen in the 60’s & 70’s and so much more.
Maybe they should examine the entire HO market for ideas?
Less cookie cutter items please!
great topic!
i also feel the makers are so concerned with the guts of the engines they are trying to keep current with technology so they are focusing attention there as well.
It was a few years back when I heard this number tossed around, but I recall the folks at Atlas-O quoting $150K-$175K as a general number for new tooling expenditures with respect to brand new models of rolling stock like the CZ passenger cars.
On the Rapido Trains blog (HO and N manufacturer) $100K was mentioned recently for an all new N scale locomotive (a GMD-1), so $150K-$175K is probably even a little low for an O scale locomotive nowadays.
And, the cost of new tooling isn't going to go down, either...
Rusty
This topic is begging to mention the possibility of industrial scale 3D printing in the future. At least for plastic engine bodies. We live in exciting times.
This issue belongs to all of our train mfgs. The market is not great, we all know that but the lack of newly tooled items especially locomotives have almost if not nil.
They can make items from old tooling but maybe one engine per catalog steam and diesel could be made also.
I'm really tired of seeing the same old thing catalog after catalog---give us something new, please.
The solution is simple. Why don't you and/or a consortium of individuals make(have it made) the tooling and then lease it back to he toy train companies. Or just agree to pay more, say $1000.00 for each engine. Tooling for our toys cost between 100K and 250K for a loco.
That is the number that responsible individuals from the two largest toy train companies have told me. One going into detail. And since I come from a professional manufacturing background including metals, plastics, and rubber these numbers do not surprise me. And yes it may,probably, dose not cost these Chinese or Korean companies that much but the world rate is that much so they too want it and get it.
Companies must recoup the cost, all cost plus a profit or they will not be there. And we all should realize that the market quantity for our toy O-gauge trains is actually somewhat infinitesimal compared to almost any other product.
Of course you can start your own company like Mike Wolf did decades ago somewhat based on the same premise, but sooner or later the reality of economics catches up.
Ron
The perfect storm......Tooling cost in China/Asia have gone up 100 to 300% of what it was in the 1990's........
Add a flat market and no new tooling.
Some say it's a self made problem.....no new tooling....flat sales......but who here wants to risk their own cash on new tooling that will not pay for itself????
If anyone here has $1M I know tooling companies in China/Asia that will tool what you want!!
David:
I think we all would like to see a variety of new tooling, but economics will dictate just how much we will see.
I don't know whether you caught it on the news this week, but someone is producing a vehicle with a 3-D printer and will market it in the 20K range. This may be part of our future.
David:
I think we all would like to see a variety of new tooling, but economics will dictate just how much we will see.
I don't know whether you caught it on the news this week, but someone is producing a vehicle with a 3-D printer and will market it in the 20K range. This may be part of our future.
And it looks like it was made from spaghetti. (At least the one I saw...)
It will also be a while before a 3-D printer could match the speed of an injection molding machine for mass production.
Rusty
I always find something in every catalog I want, so no, it does not bother me. Maybe down the road, but frankly most of what I want has been produced, even if it is not now produced, so when that old tooling comes out of retirement for another run, I'll be happy.
I do not think you will see much of it either. Just not a big enough market to recoup costs. The economy is not doing that well unless you own stocks.
Dale H
I own stocks. They're not doing so well, either.
Anything can be produced inexpensively these days even at home using a 3D printer.
Some of us might just create and supply things that others failed to capitalize on in the garage.
Tooling has changed drastically so the old expensive excuse is no longer valid.
Smart machines are replacing humans every day.
These companies either need to step up or step out.
Anything can be produced inexpensively these days even at home using a 3D printer.
Some of us might just create and supply things that others failed to capitalize on in the garage.
Until 3-D printing of large parts like body shells matches the output rate of injection molding, then it's simply going to be impractical for Lionel, MTH, Atlas, or anyone else for that matter, to use it for mass-producing, no matter how inexpensive the 3-D printing hardware is.
Anything can be produced inexpensively these days even at home using a 3D printer.
Some of us might just create and supply things that others failed to capitalize on in the garage.
Tooling has changed drastically so the old expensive excuse is no longer valid.
Smart machines are replacing humans every day.
These companies either need to step up or step out.
Gotta disagree some on those statements........
I am lucky enough to be involved to a degree with the plastic model industry.
I see product go from a dream, idea, proposal, sketches, CAD drawings, 3D printed prototypes, rough tooling tests, first round mold tests, final mold test shots, test shots fit and finish builds, mold modifications, final product mold approval, packaging, production and product delivered via a container from China. Every single step people and human hands a vital part on two different continents. We are using the current 'best methods' in hobby production......I see very little Artificial Intelligence, what you are talking about, in our production. Still a hands on business for now.
And costly....
I wonder how may molds for each loco does a manufacture need?
Oh, I dunno. Seems to me that new tooling comes up sufficiently often, now. This doesn't
help if your pet piece hasn't been made - I feel your pain - but we have the new Lionel USRA Heavy Mike (mine will be L&N), the high-nose GP-30 (refreshed tooling - I've ordered
the SOU), some with correct trucks.
The 4-new-articulateds-in-a-catalogue days are over (would you buy them all?). The
O-gauge manufacturers have modeled only a small percentage of, for example, prototype
steam locos; we can hope for more, but at a rational pace.
I don't follow MTH as much as Lionel or the Lionel-pals, but those later Mohawks are
a real achievement (I have the Lima L3b).
===
Perhaps we should continue to encourage Weaver to keep offering low-volume steamers,
for those of us who want the less-mainstream.
(Again, NC&StL streamstyled 4-8-4's.)
=====
HOWEVER: for the life of me, I cannot recall any O-gauge/scale offering of a waffle-side
(proper name?) gondola. I see them all over the place; common, modern car. But,
if one has been done in plastic/scale, I don't know about it. Why?
I wonder how may molds for each loco does a manufacture need?
Depends on the engine.
Diesel:
1 for the main body and one for some add ons in plastic molds (horns, doors, whatever), At least two for the base plate in metal forming. One to punch the outline and holes, one to form the shape.
Steam engine:
you can double that if not more. And they are all die cast so bigger costs for each iteration of development.
Even a freight car takes at least 4: 2 Plastic; body, Details(doors, ect), Frame punch and molding (metal).
That's if the item has all molded in ladders and such, a Premier / Scale unit needs many more for the add on details.
I’m in the cell phone industry.
Apple can design, provide millions of phones, load the OS software and have them in your hands in a matter of weeks via Foxcon.
Any kind of plastic, metal shape or part can be made inexpensively and produce quickly.
Successful companies are using LEAN and Kaizen methods these days.
Get on board!
They can make items from old tooling but maybe one engine per catalog steam and diesel could be made also.
I'm really tired of seeing the same old thing catalog after catalog---give us something new, please.
I agree. At least one new loco a year is all we ask. There are still some models to make:
4-4-0 cammelbacks
2-6-0
2-6-2
GP9m[ chopped nose]
GP40-2[phase II]
SD60M[three payne cab]
U28/30/33/36B's
C36-7
C39-8
I’m in the cell phone industry.
Apple can design, provide millions of phones, load the OS software and have them in your hands in a matter of weeks via Foxcon.
Any kind of plastic, metal shape or part can be made inexpensively and produce quickly.
Successful companies are using LEAN and Kaizen methods these days.
Get on board!
Quiz time, 4 questions:
Which is more complicated?
Which requires more hand assembly?
Which one costs the consumer less?
Which one has higher production numbers?
a:
b:
Rusty
As usual, a lot of naïve opinion re business and manufacturing.
) 
Meanwhile, I'm going to try to understand why a country of 1.4 BILLION souls would want to find a way to replace the human content with "smart machines" in the making of toy trains? Hmmmmm....
Meanwhile, back at the ranch....
I wonder how may molds for each loco does a manufacture need?
If the mold is a high grade tool cut from nickel steel it will last 1 million presses or more if taken care of. Some plastic model tools have, with maintenance, been in use since the 1960's.
I do not know for a fact but doubt any modern O scale loco has worn out a mold or production numbers so high it needed a clone mold.
These companies either need to step up or step out.
Man, I hope and pray that our current suppliers do not decide to just "step out". I reentered the hobby in 1975 and was happy to just find that Lionel was still making trains, even if was very limited.
I am amazed at the choices I have available to me today and still enjoy every new catalog that comes out.
Happy railroading,
Don
I am hoping for Lionel to make a traditional SD70 ACe or GE ES44ac like MTH's imperial versions.
I’m in the cell phone industry.
Apple can design, provide millions of phones, load the OS software and have them in your hands in a matter of weeks via Foxcon.
Any kind of plastic, metal shape or part can be made inexpensively and produce quickly.
Successful companies are using LEAN and Kaizen methods these days.
Get on board!
Apple has 300,000 "employees" assembling I pads alone.
As usual, a lot of naïve opinion re business and manufacturing.
)
Meanwhile, I'm going to try to understand why a country of 1.4 BILLION souls would want to find a way to replace the human content with "smart machines" in the making of toy trains? Hmmmmm....
Meanwhile, back at the ranch....
OK, Show me the new TRAINS AND I WILL SHOW THE MONEY 
I would love new tooling but I understand why there is not a business case for it at this point of time. I wonder how many units they have to sell to break even on the cost of new tooling. I am just happy I got experience when MTH and Lionel had new tooling every year in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I hope it some point though some new tooling like a B23-7, B30-7, or B36-7 would be developed. A decent amount of railroads owned these and it would be great for people who model 80's and 90's railroads. I wonder if it possible to do modular tooling to build these locomotives.
I am hoping for Lionel to make a traditional SD70 ACe or GE ES44ac like MTH's imperial versions.
Unfortunately I do not see Lionel doing that because they have basically discontinued the Lionmaster line because it was costing almost as much to make those items as the scale stuff. They could do a semi scale starter set one but I do not know if it would sell well. It would be nice if Lionel had a more modern diesel starter set locomotive though.
I'm just glad they're all still in business. As to dies, K-Line made some of theirs from epoxy (as per Nick Ladd at the TCA Museum presentations). It helped make some cheaper trains, but the overall profits went down - and no more K-Line .
It’s not that hard guys, really.
You’re either in or out of the train business, reality check?
We shall see who is left standing in ‘O’ with-in the next 3 to 4 years… 
Why make excuses for any company??! This IS an industry for Making trains. Either make new releases or move On. Seriously. Stop making excuses !!! Lets see some new stuff...
"it's the economy stupid"
Don
If Lionel were to make new different stuff, they will go broke faster then they are already going broke.
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