Skip to main content

…and one that’s an affordable RTR with LionChief, not a top level Legacy type version that it is out of my market range?

With all of the recent talk on the board about what folks want the manufacturers to have in their next catalog, I figured I would mention that I was really disappointed when Lionel finally came around to offering a LionChief RTR Amtrak in 2015 and instead of it being a current Amtrak with a Genesis locomotive and Amfleet cars, it was a rehash of the tired old O-27 passenger cars (at least they had no silhouettes in the windows ) with Phase 1 livery and a EMD F3 Locomotive. Maybe its me, but it seems like it’s been the standard practice to release product with base molds and just slapping on UP, PRR, NYC, SP, etc. on them – even if the railroad never used that equipment – and selling them because folks in my generation or older will buy them.  They could have at least done a modern Genesis locomotive like MTH/Williams have done, and if they wanted to do a retro Red Nose, that would have been fine too. 

I know that molds and tooling cost money, but that’s not my concern.  Yes, that's right, I just said that .  You don’t run a business by just producing the same old item every year and not improving the product.  If one wants to make money, one needs to spend money in R&D. What happened to the Lionel innovation of the Post War that is waxed poetically all the time about back then every year they came out with a new product, etc.?  Yes, I know this isn’t the 1950’s and model trains aren’t king, but in today’s world Kato has released 4 versions of N Scale Amtrak locomotives in the past 5+ years since I re-entered the hobby.  Started out with the P42 then added in the F40 and just this year, brought in the SD40PF with the Red Nose.  It’s not tooling but a paint job, but at least the P42 has the Blue Wave, Phase IV, the 40th Anniversary Loco #156 (like MTH does) liveries.  Kato has also just released the ACS-64 Amtak loco and keeps pumping them out. So in half a decade I've seen my choices in Amtrak N Scale multiply, while the O Scale remains static.  To give Lionel big props, LionChief is a MAJOR R&D development, and I, for one, am in love with it as with the exception of my MTH Amtrak #156, every new O Scale locomotive or RTR that I  have purchased has been a LionChief product.  Time to spend some of the R&D funds now on updating the era passenger car rolling stock (not just Amtrak, BTW)... and add a Viewliner while you're at it.

It was posted on OGR about a month or so ago that young people are interested in playing with trains that they have actually seen, not the Warbonnet, UP, NYC, etc that may mean nothing to them.  Part of the primary target market for the RTR sets are kids, right?  Outside of “choo choos” as I believe steam crosses all generations, wouldn’t be the aim to provide product that that the kids would want?

Stepping off soap box now.

Last edited by Amfleet25124
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

MTH has been making them since 1998, but not Lionel. I'm really curious to know why they're taking their time. Same for the F40PH; it took them a decade to decide to make one (again MTH has sold F40PH's for quite some time).

It's pet-peeving because every Lionel catalog for diesels is just a re-run of an ES44AC, SD40-2, some classic diesels like the F-Units and the GP-High-Hoods, and maybe an occasional switcher.

Should Lionel bother making a Genesis, it would most likely cost about 1K, like the first ES44AC that they made in the hybrid livery. This is why I'm against Lionel...

Saudi Railways posted:

MTH has been making them since 1998, but not Lionel. I'm really curious to know why they're taking their time. Same for the F40PH; it took them a decade to decide to make one (again MTH has sold F40PH's for quite some time).

It's pet-peeving because every Lionel catalog for diesels is just a re-run of an ES44AC, SD40-2, some classic diesels like the F-Units and the GP-High-Hoods, and maybe an occasional switcher.

Should Lionel bother making a Genesis, it would most likely cost about 1K, like the first ES44AC that they made in the hybrid livery.yhe price disparit This is why I'm against Lionel...

Don't believe it'll cost 1K, but it'll surely cost more then a MTH Genesis.   While MTH engines controlled by DCS has always run great, the positive here is sound, lacking for years compared to Lionel has been noticeably improved.   The horn and all eight notches of engine sound on the new F40PH is spot on.   Hope they keep it up.

joe  

Last edited by JC642

I don't think Lionel should invest in a Genesis. As stated above, others have done it. Instead Lionel should invest in the mp36 ( a mostly

Western commuter locomotive)

 

as well as the new Amtrak Charger Locomotives.

 

There are a lot of colorful trains with these newer passenger power units. And more importantly, Lionel can get a jump on the competition!

Last edited by prrhorseshoecurve

They're probably thinking about (smarting from?) their HHP-8 effort

Released one set with it and a stand-alone model, then Amtrak dumped the real ones (as I recall, #656, the one Lionel modeled in their Northeast Corridor set, was the first one retired)

That does leave their Amfleet cars as something of an orphan. They'd be noticeably skinny-looking behind an F40 or P40/42 (not so much an AEM7, but those are gone too).

---PCJ

Im in the camp that doesnt see much point at this time. I have a dozen MTH ones, I dont see myself starting to buy Lionel ones because they come in an orange box. 

Early ones are cheap, if you absolutely gotta have it orange flavored, gut a cheap one and put in TMCC. 

The only way I could see it being worth their while is with a slide tooled nose so they could offer it with the P40 eyebrow strobes, and the modernized fiberglass nose cone.... but getting into that level would cost a fortune.

I'd rather they put the tooling effort into an ACS-64 or SDP40F.

Last edited by Boilermaker1

Wow!

Just noticed that this thread has gained a new life after 6 months LOL.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't do new tooling for an ACS-64 or an AEM-7.  Those would great too.

On the subject that the Genesis has been done already by other manufacturers so there doesn't need to be another, why then do all the manufacturers feel the need to keep repeating F3's, etc. with Union Pacific and Santa Fe Warbonnet colors?

Amfleet25124 posted:

Wow!

Just noticed that this thread has gained a new life after 6 months LOL.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't do new tooling for an ACS-64 or an AEM-7.  Those would great too.

On the subject that the Genesis has been done already by other manufacturers so there doesn't need to be another, why then do all the manufacturers feel the need to keep repeating F3's, etc. with Union Pacific and Santa Fe Warbonnet colors?

Because they keep selling well.  And no, I don't get it either.

Amfleet25124 posted:

Wow!

Just noticed that this thread has gained a new life after 6 months LOL.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't do new tooling for an ACS-64 or an AEM-7.  Those would great too.

On the subject that the Genesis has been done already by other manufacturers so there doesn't need to be another, why then do all the manufacturers feel the need to keep repeating F3's, etc. with Union Pacific and Santa Fe Warbonnet colors?

Funny that you mention the revival - I happened to meet a Genesis engineer at my local hobby shop. He was working with the tech of his HO engines that have a special paint job, but don't have room for the LokSound system, which has the engine sounds perfect, according to a guy that rides in one for living.

So, Williams has Phase iV and Phase V engines. MTH has a new set of Phase IV cars on the way for this year. So, I was tempted to build that train and put ERR stuff in the engine. It would be missing the distinctive start-up , prime mover and shut down sounds, but it would look correct and be a nice runner.

Now, how can I get a LokSound module to work with EER?

 

Amfleet25124 posted:

Wow!

Just noticed that this thread has gained a new life after 6 months LOL.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't do new tooling for an ACS-64 or an AEM-7.  Those would great too.

On the subject that the Genesis has been done already by other manufacturers so there doesn't need to be another, why then do all the manufacturers feel the need to keep repeating F3's, etc. with Union Pacific and Santa Fe Warbonnet colors?

They're nostalgic and iconic. The genesis is neither. 

 

falconservice posted:
They do not let the AMTRAK trains stick in one place on the mainline. They drop off and pick up passengers then move ahead in less then 10 minutes. What makes the trains interesting are the contrasting types of passengers.

Looks like passengers on this train don't want to get off . Isn't that a Genesis Engine?

joe

crowded train't

 

 

Attachments

Images (1)
  • crowded train
Boilermaker1 posted:
Amfleet25124 posted:

Wow!

Just noticed that this thread has gained a new life after 6 months LOL.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't do new tooling for an ACS-64 or an AEM-7.  Those would great too.

On the subject that the Genesis has been done already by other manufacturers so there doesn't need to be another, why then do all the manufacturers feel the need to keep repeating F3's, etc. with Union Pacific and Santa Fe Warbonnet colors?

They're nostalgic and iconic. The genesis is neither. 

 

Not yet, anyway...

Rusty

YES

LionChief Plus Genises

Back in the Golden Age of Lionel and American Flyer, these companies made locomotives that kids could see going through their town. Like the Famous Hudson and F3.  Lionel should go back to their historic roots and put the Genesis in their affordable line.  

We always talk about getting young kids into the hobby, well / The Genesis if the most popular passenger locomotive on today's rails. Lionel needs to brings this real live action to, LionChief Plus, maybe even with passenger cars.

Gary

Attachments

Images (1)
  • LionChief Plus Genises
Last edited by trainroomgary

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×