Williams F7, are hey scale size?

Probably not as the height may be different among other aspects...

The Williams F-7 is from a very old set of dies and are not really scale.  The A unit proportions are all wrong.  The level of detail is pretty crude.  Not a good match for an Atlas unit, not at all.

Look for an Atlas B unit in a clearance sale from a Forum Sponsor.

Andrew

Dan,

An F-7 and an F-3 are two different sized engines to begin with, the F-7 most likely being taller, so No you won't get a good match.

Try an F-3 B unit rather then an F-7 B unit.

You are probably getting a real bargain on the Williams F-7 B unit from somebody on the internet but go with the correct matching engine unit as it will look better.

Lee Fritz

Glad I looked.  I had always assumed that all F units were pretty much the same size.  The All Nation die cast F units were changed from F-3 to F-7 by removing a porthole, adding louvers, and changing the roof fan outlets.

I do have some FTs that are bigger, but they are in17/64 scale.

Now I know that my Fs may not be scale size - now to figure out which one is incorrect.

Don't forget P&D Hobbies has F unit shells available. They are listed in the O scale 2-R section of their website.

Jeff C

They are nominally 1/4" scale, but as mentioned above, are crudely detailed, body is too low (as is Lionel's PW F, I believe) and the shape of the front is wrong.

Having said that, I kind of like them for their historical

Kusan connection, though I do not own any. Also, as above, I would keep them away

from the modern brands L, A and M versions of EMD F's, but with the PW F's and their WBB/MTH clones, sure, why not? Same modeling era. Cool mix.

The majority of differences between the two are internal, mostly electrical.  Other common spotting differences is the F3s had "chicken wire" mesh screening on the carbody sides while the F7 had horizontal stainless steel "grid" style wire meshing.  The F3's radiator cooling fans also had a higher profile than the F7s.  There are some other subtle differences but those are the primary, easily identifiable visual cues.

Having said that, the later-build F3s (either phase 3 or 4, don't remember) was virtually identical in appearance to the F7, including the mesh screens & radiator fans.

Back to the Williams/Williams by Bachmann model: one other detail other than the nose contour being off, the body is also too narrow to be scale.  To sum it up, the overall detail & accuracy differences between it and the Atlas O are like night and day and definitely would look out of place coupled together.

Dan said: "So what do you think, would a William's F7 B unit look ok behind an Atlas F3 A unit?"

I think it looks OK for the price from a distance!

Here are some photos for comparison;

Is it a new or old Atlas unit??

CP engines are new Sunset 3rd rail pricey, A is one with a steam generator so a bit longer then the other A units.

Silver are older Lionel with TMCC odyssey etc.

Black bodies are the P&D body kits can do them with any level of detail to match different versions.

The blue VIA engines still have to add stripes to the B unit.

The VIA Blue B body is the Williams B unit available for $89 at Trainworld and other places for a dummy also can be powered easily.

The VIA A unit is the old old old Atlas 2 rail engines. I have it wired into the Williams B unit that I powered and connected to the reverse board. This set I run with 8 MTH passenger cars, the 2 engines seem to work OK together with the front engine running with 2 rail scale wheels as long as I stay away from lots of turnouts.

The Williams B body does not look all that bad, ride height is a bit high price is right!

Let me know if you want any more detailed pics of any of them.

Click on any photos for it to open larger with more detail.

I have the original ABA Williams F-7s [Southern Ry]from 1990 with the OTT sound system. They are definitely smaller than 1/4 scale. I haven't operated them since the early '90s at which time I fried the sound system.