Would you purchase Atlas Cal Zephyr train as a set now?

The answer is no. I am hooked on the bright shiny look that K-Line achieved on their CZ set. Hard for me personally to get over the finish on the Atlas set.

Very personal decision, so expect to hear folks weigh in on both sides of yes/no.  

 

I'm OK with the satin finish as opposed to bright/shiny... So the Atlas CZ works for me.  There's been some talk about slightly different finishes when Atlas-O lost their original manufacturer and needed to switch mid-stream.  But to my eyes the variation is subtle, and you'd be hard-pressed to really see the difference on a moving train.  But to the most critical eyes, it's there.  The detail level is spectacular, and the price-point is unbeatable in the scale world.

 

If you can get past the satin vs. shiny appearance, I'd say go for it.  As for which cars to purchase... when all is said and done, Atlas will have produced all of the CZ variations.  So it's purely your call as to which cars and how long a train you want to assemble.  An 11- or 12-car train composed of 21" passenger cars needs a lot of real estate!  

 

David

In a nutshell - good things come to those who wait! No question the earlier K-Line CZ passenger cars cars look very nice but so do the Atlas CZ cars. It really is a matter of personal choice between the 2 sets and the Atlas CZ cars get my vote - the K-Line cars are much too shiny for my eyes.

No, do I look like Donald Trump? 

If I had the money, yes I certainly would. Plus I would have purchased a pair of the Sunset/3rd Rail CB&Q E7A units, as well as the newly announced CB&Q E8A units.

If Atlas-O had to do it over again, I wonder if they would offer the cars piecemeal over time again.  They're certainly starting that way again with the recent catalog'd Alaska RR cars.  Maybe one or two years MAX, but no way would I ever sign up for the onesy/twosy approach over 5-7 long years again!  A lot of unforeseen life/business events can happen in that amount of time. Importer/manufacturer relationships change, and people's interests and life situations change. 

 

Now that the project is rolling to a close, a 12-car train at roughly $125-$150/car will set a CZ enthusiast back $1,500-$1,800 -- not including motive power.  And there are plenty of options for motive power -- both prototypical and fantasy.  

 

Since I'm expecting a full 12- or 13-car train to have a bit of heft to it, I'm planning to put 3 Lionel Legacy heritage SD70ACe's (all powered) up front when I'm in the mood for fantasy running... one for each CZ roadname:  CB&Q, D&RGW, and WP.  Those Legacy diesels sound superb!    And they make for a colorful headline of loco power.  When my mood tends to more prototypical running, I have WP (F-series) and CB&Q (E-series) ABBA or ABA configs on the roster too.

 

Either way, passenger trains tend to take a serious chunk of $$$$ out of the wallet, but they're tough to beat when cruising through our miniature worlds of model train wonder.  

 

David 

 

 

My reason for posing these questions was not to assess anyone's net worth.  I am interested in feedback on whether releasing  one car at time is preferable to a set. If you want a set, how many cars would you prefer?
Thanks again for constructive feedback

YES, a guy in our club has collected 12 of the cars and he pulls it with A-B-A F's and it looks GREAT!

 

 

It was disappointing that it took five years to get to the Observation Car but when I finally got it on the track it went,I am currently running the original 11 car consist from 1949 less the Baggage car really looks good and is scale proportioned where the K Line cars are not but still very nice.I think Atlas would have to sell the cars in groups to get the sales because an original 11 car train would be $1500 and hard for some people to afford.I also have the CB&Q E-8,D&RGW Alco PA and the WP F 7 A-B-B-A so there is alot of money involved in motive power.If I had to I would bite the bullet and buy the whole set at one time.

Mikey

I would say probably not, because the total price may have been out of my budget. While I agree the entire train did take a long time for them produce the fact that it did take a long time allowed me to buy the cars. I like the fact that the way Atlas did it I was able to buy as little or as many cars as I wanted. Even though the prototype CZ was approximately 12 cars I didn't want a 12 car train. Like RockyM said above 12 21" cars take up a lot of real estate. Most O gauge layouts have some sort of compromise for space and I thought a 7 or 8 car train would resemble the prototype just fine. I have 6 cars presently and I am only going to add 2 more.

 

Since I am more interested in the scale side of the hobby I liked the finish that Atlas put on the cars. That's not to say the K-Lines weren't nice too, they were, just that I prefer the flatter finish.

 

All opinion.

If the cars have to be grouped together I personally prefer 4 car sets not sold all at once. It's just a lot better for my budget. I believe GGD used to do it this way. I'm not sure of they still do.

 

All opinion.

I prefer the "sets" also. Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot generally does "sets", as with the SP Daylight, which came in three "sets" as I recall, i.e. one set of about 4 cars, then the articulated 3-section diner & snack car set, then chair car sets. The also offered individual additional chair cars and articulated chair cars separately, which finally got you up to 11 or 12 cars, if I remember. The GGD Santa Fe passenger sets are packaged the same way, so that the purchaser can have an 8 car train, and/or the full 11 or 12 car total train set (whichever it is).

No. I would not. Number one: I couldn't afford them, number 2: If I did not have a couple cars up front, there is no way my layout could accommodate them.

I am still wrestling with certain areas that they worked great and operated well as a 2 or 3 car train, however put them all together and its mayhem...

 

I think its absolutely brilliant how Atlas released these. Yes there are some  color errors and blinds on the outside of the window issues, but all in all, each release has been an emotional unveiling that really has kept me engaged in completing the entire set.

 

I bought 3 of them for an excursion train, great cars, but I would not buy a whole set piece by piece. Sounds like Atlas is going to re-run the previous releases, but of course 1 by 1. Put a set together Atlas... 4 cars or 6 cars whatever... A passenger train should be sold in some type of "SET".

If I were a CZ fan, or collector of all things passenger, I would buy a "set", no doubt about it.

No, but I don't have any interest in those cars anyways. I never understood the concept of working on one specific train, piece by piece, for years. At this rate it could be 20 years before they announce and deliver a passenger set that I'm interested in.

 

If they are going to take this approach then then need to look at how Walthers does their "Name Train" series in HO. Advertised and delivered in a reasonable amount of time with options to purchase as each car comes in or once the entire set is available. Oh yeah, and with accurate road specific motive power!

 

I love O scale but it is so frustrating sometimes to see all the cool stuff going on in HO.

 

To answer the question in a more direct way: I hate buying piece by piece over time. I would always prefer to buy the entire set. I love sets

Gentlemen,

   Although I love Atlas O stuff most all the time, I have to agree with Brian on this one, the K-Line stuff has it beat hands down.

PCRR/Dave

Even if the K-Line cars were not prototypically correct?

I would also buy the K-Line...it is great.  And...if you like it...it will look great on your layout.  Matt

Bingo.  Releasing passenger cars one at a time allows those of us without deep wallets to accumulate the whole set without breaking the budget.  I have no interest in the California Zephyr, but I'd like to see other passenger sets released this way.

 

 

I respect everyone's opinion as to which model they like better, K-Line versus Atlas O. But the purpose of this topic is to explore our purchasing preferences with regard to passenger trains.

 

Do you prefer to buy passenger trains in sets or do you prefer to buy the passenger cars one at at time over the course of several years.

 

Follow up questions are...

IF you like to purchase as a set how many cars should the basic set contain?  How many cars should any add on sets contain?

 

IF you like to purchase one car at a time how many months/years do you consider to be a reasonable amount of time for the complete train to be released?

 

again, I appreciate constructive feedback

and comparing the new Atlas CZ cars to the K-Line cars???? really??? OK, you may like the finish better, BUT detail wise.... there is NO comparison.

I would buy it as a set of 6-8 cars with add on's as LOS stated.  And while the finish on the K-line cars is very good, they can't hold a candle to Atlas's product in the detail dept.   

Hot Water,

   Proto Typical means nothing to my child like multi-level Tin Plate layout.

Not one thing!

PCRR/Dave

"And while the finish on the K-line cars is very good, they can't hold a candle to Atlas's product in the detail dept."

 

Yes, I concur, but in fairness, the K-Lines were done over ten years ago. I would hope the detail is better based upon all the improvements that we have experienced with most of the other products during this time frame.

 

I still believe that a supplier can come up with a good looking just-out-of-the-factory-look finish within the plastic passenger car line. Let's see what Lionel does with their upcoming ESE set. A lot of us are waiting to see this result. 

I have the K-Line 8 car set and love it.  It has been my favorite train.  But I have had some other people's Atlas cars on the layout and the detailing is awesome.  I knew that I had to buy an Atlas observation car even if I just used it as a private owner excursion on the back of a modern Amtrak train.  But the detail on it is so stunning that it has been wearing me down.  I'm at the point where I don't know whether to add a second set of Atlas cars or replace my K-Line set?  And I am pulling my K-Line cars with Lionel Western Pacific F units and I probably will have to go with the newly announced 3rd Rail CB&Q E units.  Decisions...decisions!  So many great choices, great time to be in the hobby.

 

Art

That is very true and an excellent point. 

 

My problem with buying a set is that more often than not it includes an observation car. I need another observation car like I need another hole in my head. Observation cars should be available as a separate purchase.

I don't model western railroads at this time, so I wouldn't buy this train as a set.  For passenger trains, however, especially named ones, I generally would prefer to buy a set, or, at least, a starter set with add-ons to be released later. 

 

I ended up pre-ordering the entire Lionel ESE set because my understanding was that everything was BTO, and I eventually wanted the entire set.  I would've had no issue, financially speaking in particular, of waiting a year for Lionel to release the diner car and 2-car add-on pack. 

 

I'll probably always want the whole train, though saving up the funds in the short time between announcement & when orders are due (esp. if BTO) puts me in a bit of a bind.  Personally, if I were buying I would've preferred if Atlas would have released an initial 4-6 car set, then released smaller sets or individual cars over the next couple years.

What Atlas has done is build a prototypical set for the Ca Zephyr doing the cars in all three road names including the PRR car,something that Lionel and MTH have not done to date,only GGD has done it this way in the 3 rail marketplace.

Mikey

I have the entire 11 car K Line set and love it.  As for it being prototypical, that is a matter of personnel preference.  I have also added Lionel CBQ baggage cars to my K Line cars, looks great.  My motive power is Lionel and Williams Rio Grade PA A-B-A sets.  I also use Lionel and K Line West Pac F3 ABA sets.  Just for kicks I use the Lionel Rio Grande Challenger, MTH St Fe DL-109/110 ABA set at times.  No problem pulling around the layout on any of the diff lines and elevations.  Now, just to get some CBQ motive power.........

OK... back to original question, sets of 4-6 cars and later add on's is best way to accommodate most in our hobby.  I was fortunate to get all the K Line CZ cars at one time from an on line retailer/dealer at a good price, and with very little wear.

My Old Fashioned Lionel Silhouette CaZ ... not very anything, but fun ...

 

 

17222	StdO Silver/Orange Feather (Express) C9	-	WP	Express	17222
18191	F-3 A-A C9 Test Run 10 minutes Rare 1pwr-1np A-B-A only	$799	WP	Diesel	2355
18197	F-3 B non-pwr w/rail sounds C9 with AA only $299 RARE solo $349	$349	WP	Diesel	2355C
18198	F-3 B 2345 VERY RARE C9 B Very Rare $399 wA-B-B-A	$399	WP	Diesel	2345C
52178	LtGrey Upper&Top/Black Lower&End/Yel&Red Pinstripe Operating "Route of the Zephyrs"	-	CB&Q	Express	52178-559
14547	E-5  A-A Silver Carrier Burlington California Zepher	-	CB&Q	Diesel	9915A,B
18107	PA-1 A-B-A  MINT Sealed	-	D&RG	Diesel	6001-B-6002
19122	CZ Baggage C10 Greenburg $229	-	D&RG	Streamliner	Silver Antelope
19125	California Zephyr Vista Dome MINT	-	D&RG	Streamliner	Silver Mustang
2345	F-3 A-A C6 (Not for Sale) Very RARE 1952 RESTORE THIS	-	WP	Diesel	2355
27236	O-Scale DD Boxcar Yel-Silver side Silver ends,top	-	D&RG	Express	63799
29135	California Zephyr Vista Dome C7 WP/RG	-	WP	Streamliner	Silver Poplar
29138	California Zephyr Silver Dome Observation wRear Coupler (Factory Mod) Truck + $120 C7 Chasis Modification by Lionel Tech Staff	-	WP	Streamliner	Silver Planet
39183	California Zepher Baggage C10 fm boxed 2pac 39182 SELL	$169	WP	Streamliner	Silver Stag
39184	California Zepher Silver Diner C10 fm boxed 2pac 39182	-	WP	Streamliner	Silver Platter
9576	Burlington Baggage NIB CB&Q get 2x"California Zephyr" plates	-	CB&Q	Streamliner	Silver Pouch
9578	Burlington Coach C8 CB&Q get 2x"California Zephyr" plates	-	CB&Q	Streamliner	Silver Gladiola
9588	Burlington Vista Dome MINT get 2x"California Zephyr" plates	-	CB&Q	Streamliner	Silver Dome

 

Note ... Loco, Express Car, and Baggage for each of the 3 RR's which pull the rest of the Silver XXX consist ...

 

Oh yeah, I'd buy it after the fact. It's a nice train

The Atlas cars have better details, but just wait until you try to run 12 of those cars together -- it is an exercise in derailment and chaos. May there be Mercy upon you if you have any O-71.99 curves.

In broader terms, the one or two cars at a time over a half dozen years is nutty, regardless of price who really wants to hope they someday get a working train, not me. For the CZ, three sets of 4 cars offered at the same time would be ideal. One can buy a working four car train, then add another four or eight has they may wish.

Never again would I embark on a multiple year, wish and prayer, train purchase. There is to much downside risk, to the buyer, what if Atlas had closed their O line during the downturn, or orders had failed to materialize along the way and they scrapped the project -- with the CZ observation at the end of production there could have been a whole lot of "sort of" CZ's without the signature observation car.

They really are spectacular models.  I have no passenger cars as nice as these, and I have the $350 brass versions around here.  I do have one K-line Zephyr 21"er in my Budd string, which is mostly either polished or anodized aluminum, and find it slightly too shiny.  It may be plated chromium?  But it is a very nice car.

 

If I were going to buy more passenger cars, it would be one at a time.  I am literally out of space, with my collection migrating to the airport, so no more . . .

Not sure, but I think the shiny K-Line is on the left of the silver string:

 

Ive got 14 cars on the layout right now and theyve been running well since I went therough the melt down day of taking that train out of the box. Once I ironed out the wrinkles everything was fine. Only issue I had related to the cars was a boken coupler possible related to pulling 14 heavy 21 inch passenger cars

I am running 11 Atlas CZ Cars on 096 curves and have no derailing issues.I dialed in all of the Diaphrgm clearances via the coupler adjustments prior to running,these cars are running on Lionel tubular track with with K Line 096 curves and Ross 096 switches.

Mikey