Wrong color Lionel rolling stock

Although I've not seen that particular substitution made before, it did occasionally happen on many 1970's sets.

But are you saying you have a GREEN 9121 L&N Flatcar? If so, I'd love to see a photo.

Otherwise, I'm thinking you might have a green 9120 NP, 9122 NP or 9124 P&LE Flatcar with your Dad's set.

TRW 

Sure; happens every so often to ALL the marketers/manufacturers - especially in

low-end or toy-level product - probably especially so in "created collectible" sets.

High-end/scale products are by far more accurate in their presentation, as they have

a more discerning audience - and bigger price tags.

No one is perfect. In the recent offerings by Weaver (and they don't make "toys") there

is a nice, scale, blue GM&O boxcar. I bought it, knowing that it was blue. The GM&O

never had any blue boxcars. Any. Lots of green ones, though. I bought it for the novelty (I think that the lettering is a bit off, style-wise, too) of it. Weaver makes consistently good stuff. Oops.

I have a photo of the GM&O boxcar that Weaver made (the same series, that is). The photo

is only fair, the car is actually green, but it sure could pass for a blue in the photo.

With the low-end stuff, off-color (and off-everything) is common, but not too bad, as

these products have a whole different purpose in life.

I will post a photo soon. Fun how it happens some times, add a bit of what if to things.

They most likely had a bunch of flat cars already made in green left over from some other production run and ended up putting the L&N graphics on them.

Andrew

Sound plausible, given the Grand National was the high end set of 1974 missing a production run would be a bad idea. Looking at the box it looks brown, and the turnouts black. Must have been a rare occurrence since I only find the set listed with the proper colors online.

All the time.

Back in the early '70's, My wife bought me MPC Lionel GP7/9 power and dummy Santa Fe diesel locomotives.

At the time I didn't count rivets and I was happy to get these babies, but as time went on and I became more RR. savvy, I found out that instead of a 'Bumble-Bee' color scheme, the prototypical colors are 'Blue and Yellow.'

This was another goof, as the early Lionel Post War F3 Santa Fe diesel which was 'Red and Black' in the Lionel catalog, instead of being 'Red and Silver.'

Ralph

    Thank you PaperTRW I took a closer look at it and it is a NP flat car above the Linoel logo 6424-11, road number 9120. I will still post pictures, but when I have better lighting. Train coloring I find fascinating, and it some times can get rather tangled as to what was which color to history.

  Oh, I should add The Grand National was the top end set of 1974. Not only the debut of the Chessie U36B, but a full oval with a figure eight in the middle, a uncouple/activator track, and a pair of remote switches. So i find a swapped out car a bit odd, at least it was of the same type.

Grandpa had a yellow 0-27 boxcar, or stock car with a half dollar sized splotch, and marble like streaks of bright green in the roof, perfect sides. A red hopper was marbled darker green, black, yellow, and darker red. Mostly "inside", but heavy if you really looked. I also remember hearing stories of late night Michigan mischief involving employees "testing" odd colors in molds. Some got out of the building in various ways I'm sure. 

There is a pick of the misplaced car, might get around to the bled paint job of Seaboard Spirit of 76 U36B. Sorry this is a different post here, getting used to using a forum

There are a lot of those.

That is the 9120 NP flatcar based on the picture. Might have been a switch from the factory. Don't have my Greenberg MPC books, but they would mention any variations. 

That appears to be the 1971 version of the 9120. It's doubtful that the factory made the substitution into a 1974 set.

Lionel did two versions of the Northern Pacific flatcar - the 9120, made in 1970-71, and the 9122, made in 1972-75. They both came with loads of two trailers. These cars were green, but there was also a tuscan version of the 9122, which also had the trailer load.

The picture on the cover of the Grand National set shows a tuscan colored L&N flatcar with the scraper load. As others have said, in those days there occasionally were substitutions made in the sets; no doubt there were some Grand National sets that had the L&N flatcars, as well as those with NP flatcars. I had a CP Rail Great Plains Express set from 1978 at one time, and those came with one of two different CP Rail boxcars; one (which was pictured on the box) was much scarcer than the other, and was only available with the set and not as a separate sale item. The other, a more common version, was also sold separately. 

As Rob noted, it is a bit strange to see the 9120 with your Grand National set, given that it was produced several years earlier - the 9122 version would have made more sense. But who knows. No doubt there were various earlier stock pieces hanging around the factory at any given time, and occasionally used to populate sets.

Probably not in this case though, as it appears any leftover green molded cars were lettered/numbered for the green 9122 before exhausting the supply... the production was then shifted to the intended tuscan 9122 bodies. This would have been in 1972.

By 1974 or later, it's more likely that a switch in the subject set took place at the dealer level to appease a buyer or that it was a warranty exchange at the dealer level.

Looking again at Greenberg's, it indicates that the 9121 L&N flatcar was made in 1971, 1974-76, and 1978-79 (in both tuscan and maroon). These came with scrapers and dozers. Under the description for this 9121 L&N flatcar, Greenberg's also notes "There appear to be occasions when other flatcars (see 9122 NP and 9124 PC) would be substituted for this car in various sets." So that solves that mystery.

The question remains why the NP flatcar Allin has is numbered as the earlier 9120 and not 9122. Again, there may have been some unused leftover cars numbered 9120, or maybe an early run of the 9122 didn't have their numbers changed yet, or who knows what.

No problem. The 6-1460 Chessie Grand National was my first train set, so it's one of my favorites.

But honestly, I was secretly hoping you had a 9121 L&N Flatcar in GREEN!

TRW

It's hard to say for certain. I don't have much factory documentation for 1974, but there definitely was an awareness to use "obsolete" inventory in sets as referenced by paperwork I have for 1972 and 1973.

My own particular 1460 Chessie Grand National Set has the regular brown 9121 L&N flatcar, but it also has a black 9123 C&O Auto Carrier. The three-tier black cars were only produced in late 1972, and it's likely this set was the "burial ground" to get rid of them. Most 1460 sets I see have the 9123 in blue.

I've seen odd substitutions that, at first glance, defied belief. For example, some 1602 Nickel Plate Special Sets from 1986 turn-up with 9136 Republic Steel Gondolas instead of the 6254 NKP. The first one I saw I didn't think it could be right. And then I've seen three or four more. All had 1986 date codes on the set box (the set was offered 1986-1991), and all had the proper "late" 9136 without the MPC logo. The 9136 was last shown in the 1979 catalog, and yet, it was still popping-up in 1986.

So as for that 9120 NP Flatcar in the 1460 Chessie Grand National Set, I don't know. But I'll keep an eye out to see if I notice any others.

TRW

 Between the 9120 and 9122 Northern Pacific Flatcars with Trailers, there are five major variations.

1) 9120 Green with White Trailers

2) 9120 Red oxide with Gray Trailers

3) 9122 Green with White or Gray Trailers

4) 9122 Red oxide with Gray Trailers (MPC logo on flatcar)

5) 9122 Red oxide with Gray Trailers (no MPC logo on flatcar)

Originally Posted by ADCX Rob:

It's possible that the green 9122 are leftover 9120 bodies, but I have a strong hunch it was a production mistake and that they accidentally made more green bodies. There were quite a few screw-ups in the early days, the most notable being the 9701 Baltimore & Ohio Double Door Boxcar in black instead of silver. The entire "first run" of these black 9701's were done before the mistake was caught, when they were offered to the TCA. There are others as well.

I've asked a few factory workers from those days that I've tracked down about how things like this happened. Here's my best summary of those conversations -- "lots of changes in those days" -- "the artwork blueprints were not in color" -- "nobody read the color call-outs before proceeding."

TRW

I can confirm that a lot of these stories are true. Most of the shenanigans took place between 1971 and 1973.

There are quite a few unusual items from the early 1970's out there that fall into this category, and I've tried to track down as many as possible.

Even after all these years, the "players" responsible are reluctant to talk about everything that happened, but there's quite a legacy of unusual items to be found.

TRW

Thanks for the information, PaperTRW. Interesting to hear of the inner workings - and curious things - that went on in those early MPC days. It was kind of fun to get a set in those days that had an odd-ball car in it, or find a different variation of a car.

Sorry still getting used to using a forum here. I should have been clearer when i realized it was not a miss color but a substitution a NP 1971 car, even had the build quality issues of early MPC miss alined axles (only car in the set with the issue) and lots of other minor issues, like the string holding the coupler in the closed position. I find miss placed items more interesting in a positive way, along with miss colors.