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Reply to "1681E Lionel Junior Help"

Okay Mike,  You have the Lionel-Ives 1661E set#1052E, which is the passenger set.  They also issued it in a freight set #1051W, and both date to 1933.  Lionel and AF both bought out Ives in 1928-29, when Ives went bankrupt in 1927.  The exact date is up for debate, as Ives went under late 1927, so the other two finished the deal in early part of 1928.  Lionel bought out American Flyer shortly thereafter.  There was a 1661 that was produced in 1931 with Ives on the nameplate, even though it now belonged to Lionel.  I think the original 1661 (not the E version) came with a manual reverse (con-20), which differentiates that from the later one of 1661E, that had an E-unit.  The 1661E was labelled "Lionel-Ives" on bottom of the motor.  In 1933 the nameplate was changed to read "Lionel Jr.", and those were produced from 1933 until 1936.  You will find locos that were produced after 1936 that had the Lionel Jr motor, and most likely using up left over stock.

Lionel used the same shell and colors of the 1661E for a later issue of the 1681/1681E.  The 1681/1681E were made 1934-1935, and used the "Lionel Jr." motors.  The wheels on the 1661/1661E/1681/1681E were 8 spoke wheels.  The same motor was used in the 1688/1688E 'Torpedo' streamline train, issued in 1936.  The 1681 and "E" came in black body with red frame, and also red body with red frame.  The 1681 came with manual reverse, the 1681E came with an E unit.

The following year 1937, the nameplates were changed to read Lionel 027, as the 027 designation was becoming the standard.  From 1937 until the end of Postwar, the motors had Lionel 027 nameplates.

You didn't include a photo of the transformer out of the box, but it could be any one of three transformer stations.  Lionel issued #'s 1012, 1017, and 1027, all produced between 1931-1934.  From Doyle's Catalog, it says the #1012 came with an ORANGE roof, so that may be what you have.  It may also say "Winnertown" on it somewhere.  Winner Toy co., was actually Lionel, and they created that line, to offer inexpensive sets.   Winner existed from 1931-1933, then Lionel changed the name to Lionel-Ives for 1933, then it became Lionel Jr. from 1934-1936, which all used "027" track, not 0 track.  The 027 came from Ives in 1901, and Lionel started producing it in 1915, and then mass produced from 1933 onward.  The 027 track was for the inexpensive sets, which was thinner steel, and stood 7/16" tall, compared to the heavier 0 track that stood 11/16" tall.

Last edited by TeleDoc

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