@Nation Wide Lines posted:
A couple of questions for you, as you mention having seen both examples of the engines:
1) I cannot quite read the details of your image from the dealer's catalog, so what version of the engine is described as coming with the freight cars (copper trim or not)?
-There are no details given for the freight set. This clip from the dealer catalog is the only place I have ever seen mention of the different locomotives. Basically they were just describing what made the red set different than the chrome, so if you were a dealer looking to buy, I guess it answered the question about the price difference and what was included.
2) do both versions that you have seen, with the brass versus blacked out trim, have the 1680 decal?
3) if not, does the version with the copper/brass trim simply use a left-over earlier version of the engine that has the older style motor/reverse unit?
-Great questions that probably need further review to be answered properly. At this point in time, I believe that the answer might be yes to all, in that you can find both decals and both motors if you look around long enough. I would speculate that there were some leftover locomotives used up (perhaps they repainted the window red in some cases???) as well as some new locomotives being made. I unfortunately don't really collect these.... yet (LoL). But I'm rather fascinated by Gilbert production of the leftover Chicago equipment. Thus I don't have immediate access to sets to provide you with info as I haven't been visiting too many friends lately. I think it's definitely important to keep in mind that collectors often swap pieces in and out of sets that may not be correct, so it becomes very hard to say what originally came in a set unless it has good provenance and some boxes. To be honest, I didn't even realize there was a motor change on the Hudson until I read your post.
Obviously Gilbert recycled, changed, and reused items, as evident by some of the blue and light yellow six wheel truck streamliners being rebuilt from 4 wheel truck cars at the factory (you can see where the screw holes on the bottom were tapped/threaded for belly pans and paint disruption at those screw holes, along with paint disruption at the truck mounting location for the old 4 wheel truck when it was moved inboard for the six wheel truck. I can only assume they were using leftover motors, locos, and tenders in the same manner. I don't believe any parts were getting thrown away or not used.
4) how was the tender decorated?
-I think both white lettering or green stripe lettering decals could both be correct in 1938, as leftovers were being used up. I think it would be very unusual to ever find a green decal tender in the chrome set though, as this wouldn't look so good. With the Chrome #20 set being top of the line, it probably was given the best/newest equipment and assembled with more attention to detail.
I ask, because I have always wondered why the Hudsons with the 1680 decal are so difficult to find and did recently purchase a 4 car Hudson set with red enamel cars, which would be from 1938 and I thought the engine was incorrect for the set, as it is the pre-Gilbert version of the engine, which has the older pendulum style reverse unit and the tender with the green stripe decal. The set also came with individual boxes, with the red cars featuring the cowboy and indian decorated boxes and the engine featuring the older style Chicago era box (plain brown with top and bottom) and the tender coming with no box.
-I think your answer here is because it was only a one year production with the 1680 decal. I feel like many of the 1938 locos / sets are harder to find correct, where someone hasn't messed with it, or repainted it because the decal flaked off. Once again, I would bet that they used up everything they got from Chicago first and that in 1939 when everything went to flat black and rubber stamp lettering, they had more or less used up their stock of assembled locos or at least decorated shells that came from Chicago.
If the version that you observed was also the earlier style engine, this would make sense as Gilbert purchased American Flyer from W.O. Coleman in early 1938 and there certainly could have been leftover engines from the Coleman era. I know that I have heard reports of set #12, the green streamline car set with 43224, as coming with both tender and cars in the pre-Gilbert type boxes, which would signify they were selling leftover inventory from Chicago. If they had leftover cars from the pre-Gilbert Hudson sets, they certainly should have had leftover engines from these sets as well.
-Agree
-Another great thing to keep in mind is why did Gilbert create an all new tender in 1939 (433A). Could it be that they were not producing / buying the large tender shell castings at all and thus didn't have enough in their stock that came from Chicago to keep supplying all the various locomotives? Perhaps they needed to save their remaining large tender shells for the Hudsons in 1939. The large Hudson body loco and tender disappeared after 1939, as 3/16 began to take over in 1940.
It's definitely fun to examine this era of production in detail. I included a couple pics of assumed 1938 red window Hudsons without blacked out trim that I found from searching through past auctions, whatever that's worth. 
. One has an AF decal and the other a 1680 decal. It's always possible that a 1680 decaled red window loco could have a repro AF decal put on if the owner wanted to fix a flaked decal, without restoring the entire piece.
As soon as I can get eyes on some of the local sets I know about, I'll update with what I find.
