smd4 posted:Big Jim, please stop moving the goal post, and defend, if you can, these statements:
"The loss of pressure is that you are using boiler pressure to operate the injector."
"that large amount of steam used to operate the injector is exactly what sucks the pressure from the boiler."
I can tell you--and I know you already know this--that book learning can take you only so far. Before I put my hand on an injector or blower valve or atomizer, I had done the book reading. I knew all about the theory of firing; opening the blower to get more air throught the fire; keeping my water level up, but not too high; controlling the damper; keeping the fire box door closed to prevent cold air from getting sucked in. I read all the text books. I knew the theory.
Then one day they put me on the left cushion, luckily supervised, on a run (Will Sadler, posting below, was my mentor, and a good friend). Four miles. Two steep mile-long grades in either direction. Small steam locomotive, a switcher, pulling four 60-ton military flat cars built up as coaches, doing what it was never built for: pulling a train at speed.
The book learning--while helpful in understanding the theory, knowing what I was supposed to be doing, and why--went by the board pretty quick. Knowing how many pounds of steam would be used to lift so many gallons of water per minute didn't help me much when we were going up-grade, with low water and pressure dropping. Or when we were at the bottom of the grade, with the pops screaming and so much water in the glass that it was solid black. I sure didn't want to be responsible for a cracked cylinder head because the water was too high and I couldn't add any more.
You're right. Don't believe me. I haven't been doing this for even a decade. But Hot Water--one of the most experienced firemen around--told you, and yet you refuse to believe him: Adding water to the boiler with an injector lowers the boiler pressure because the water going in is cooler than the water in the boiler, and lowering the overall water temperature in the boiler means the pressure will go down as well.
Steve,
I haven't moved the goal post. Most of what you have said trying to defend your position merely defends mine. I also don't understand why you don't see how comparing the injector and feedwater heater is relevant.
The relevence is that each is introducing water to the boiler at about the same temperature. Now, remembering that the Worthington system is an "open" system, the water supplied is near 212° +/-.
Have you ever heard anyone say that water supplied by the FWH is "Cold"? Is your answer No? Me neither.
Have you ever heard that using the FWH to supply the boiler will cause a loss of pressure? Is your answer No again? I haven't.
Now, since both systems are suppying water at the same temperature, why would the injector cause a loss of boiler pressure? Simply, because you have to use steam from where? The BOILER. Now, remember the old adage..."You don't get something for nothing"? Well, if you had read the pages that I have supplied, you would see one very telling and common point throughout. The injector is very wasteful of steam. In order to provide the boiler with the water necessary, it must use a large amount of steam (that it needs to operate the loco) to heat the water to the velocity that it needs to be forced into the boiler and feed itself. The injector is using valuable steam in order to FEED ITSELF! Now, did I hear "you don't get something for nothing"? Well that "nothing" is a loss of boiler pressure. Have you ever been taking a shower and the wife turns on the washing machine? What happens? You lose pressure in the shower. Hmmm, same effect as using an injector.
Let me address a couple of your statements.
"Why do you think the check valve is placed so far forward on the boiler on most engines? Would the fact that injecting cooler water into the boiler farther away from the firebox will allow that water time to warm up and circulate, instead of shocking the boiler if it's injected right next to the firebox?? Because it's um...200 degrees cooler, and boilers don't like to expand and contract much. You do believe steel can expand and contract when exposed to differences in temperature of 200 degrees, don't you? [Boy! Talk about a sentence moving the goal posts!]
Hmmm, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Both systems supply water at the same point making this a moot point.
And, that leads to the next statement
"When the engine is working the circulation is rapid and the temperatures soon equalize,"
Hmmm, place the check valves forward, that way the circulation, being rapid, will help the temperatures "soon" equalize. Good idea. Again both systems are supplying water at around 200°. "What's good for the goose..."
So, what we have here is two systems working to accomplish the same thing. The difference being that one has to voraciously feed off of its own self to accomplish the task.
Then we come to this:
"You know how many people have "run" 611? They sell the opportunity to do so. I bet even you could do it!"
My only reply to this is, I was getting paid while doing it. 
