You're right, Bill, that was my whole point on these F-9s. I decided to put it next to a scale F7 simply to show just that. As far as being toys, when you get down to it, they're all just toys if they're not revenue producing 1:1 items. My trouble is I am interested in all aspects of the S trains hobby, from fine scale, scratch built things to the Gilbert's last gasp F-9s. A few years ago, I scratch built an AEM7, and now I'm restoring (or just getting it working again) a Gilbert F-9. I need help....