There's been much discussion on Penn Central "black". Allegedly there's the slightest, slightest, SLIGHTEST tinge of green in the formula. Norfolk Southern committed to replicating this on their PC Heritage unit. If you stare at it long enough, you can start to see the black on the body is ever so slightly lighter than the rest of the locomotive. However it is still virtually black and way darker than what Lionel has illustrated on these E8's.