Hi all, thank you so much for the input, this generated a lot more interest than I thought it would!
@Dave Koehler posted:Nice looking design! I use the K.I. S .S method, some times less is more. Remember the average 6' guy can reach 30"s so you will need access hatches. , Places for scenery and Structure's. Remember there is no perfect design, just what you want to accomplish in that space, If you are having writers ( designer ) block, put it in a file ,and walk away for a few days. PS when you build it and are planning to use a back drop, do that first!
Thank you! All my designs mostly adhere to this principle (the left, right and top of the design are against a wall, the bottom is open to the rest of the basement, so that section is typically much wider).
@Dave_C posted:I’m guessing this is an island design. Otherwise some of your yard trackage on the inside of the oval would be very hard to reach. Access hatches are a great idea for maintenance purposes. Shouldn’t really be involved in regular operation. I drew my layout on graph paper over 30 years ago. Until you see the benchwork up and track getting laid do you realize what it’s going to look like. Usually not quite as big as you think it looks on paper. I had way to much yard trackage drawn in given the space I had. Mine has been tweaked over the years as interests change. But not anything major.
The space you are given can’t change as far as how much benchwork you can put in the space. It looks like you want large curves and an oval design. I think I’d build the benchwork to fit the space and layout the 2 larger ovals of track with maybe a few turnouts in place and just start running some trains. Build or buy the structures that are must haves and figure out to incorporate them into the layout. It’s fine to try and design the perfect layout. Trouble is you can’t build it overnight and in the process of building. You will get different ideas as you see the real layout take shape.
This will be an around-the-walls layout with one side exposed to the larger room and walk-around access inside. I address further down why I don't want to build the benchwork and then build the layout, but I am getting the sense that I should avoid "overengineering" the design and allow for some flexibility during layout building.
@DoubleDAZ posted:Please post your SCARM file so those of us who also use SCARM can make changes and show suggestions vs trying to explain them in writing.
Where are the 3 walls? Top, left and right? Top, left and bottom? I don’t see any place where it will be easy to add a lift section for entry.
Based on your description, I assume the inside oval with the reversing loop is your top level and the rest is your main level. If it is, that’s not the way it’s usually done. Usually, those tracks would run directly above the lower level otherwise they’ll obstruct the view of the tracks/scenery below. Also, with a single reversing loop, once you reverse a train, the only way to reverse back is to back through the loop. It’s also hard to see how you plan to landscape the spurs in the top level. If you intend to add decking for buildings, etc., that further hides the main level and minimizes access.
I don’t see where/how you plan to access the lower staging level and where those tracks will be.
There are several spurs in the top and bottom left that don’t have room for much in the way of landscaping, so it’s hard to tell what they are for.
I do not want to post the SCARM file of what is pictured since that is an outdated design now but I will find a more recent design tomorrow or over the weekend. The left, right and top of the design are against a wall, the bottom is open to the rest of the basement (I use this approach in all my designs). Dimensions are 10x25 though this may shrink some now that I am looking at finishing the basement. The outer double-main is the top-most level for easy loop-run viewing. The inside, single-track branch sits lower on the next level below, and an operator would need to stand inside in an aisle to operate. I'll note that the large yard and turntable are on the upper level and face out towards the basement, thus to change trains an operator would need to leave the center aisle to access the main yard (a hassle, I know - maybe a switching board inside the aisle so the operator doesn't need to leave?). The reason I did not have an upper-reverse loop was that I wanted to use turntable for engine change or engine turnaround. A train comes up from storage layer, loops until the operator is ready to bring it into the yard, the train pulls into the arrival/departure track, a switching breaks down the train while the engine goes to the turntable and roundhouse, either it will be stored in the roundhouse and the operator brings out a new locomotive to pull a new train, or the engine is turned around and returns with a new consist to the storage layer. The reverse loop is present on the lower layer so that locals and coal haulers can get turned around (the coal haulers can back into the mine, the local freight engines can continuously move forward and, if switching with a steam engine that does not have a front operating coupler, the engine can still perform switching duties in the village regardless of which way the switches are facing).
The spurs were meant to go against industrial flats, but in newer designs I am taking more of a rural approach surrounding the main, though these spurs are not present in more recent designs since reaching these portions of the layout would be a stretch.
@StPaul posted:...
The exact dimensions are 10x25. It will be against the wall on three sides and open out to the basement on the fourth. I should mention that I am still young and am reasonably confident this will not be my retirement home. I expect to be here for a few years and have no timeline for moving again, but when thinking about raising a family staying here for a long time is probably not practical.
@Farmall-Joe posted:Maybe using the software isnt for you. I tried it myself and ended up frustrated as i am old fashioned and one who needs to see things in 3D and be hands on. Once i had the room complete with proper insulation, wiring, sheetrock etc, (a must before any train work in my opinion) i could start building benchwork and get a 3D sense of how things would go and fill in the space. ( And there is never enough space). You just have to boil it down to what you really want first and plan on tweeking it later. Remember, its supposed to be fun. Also, for hands on planning, i purchased RCS's full size templates (also available to download from his website) as i was going to be using his track.
I have used the pen-and-paper method but without any templates I find myself once again not grounded in reality and letting my imagination run irrationally 
I did not give much thought to finishing the basement but after some quick reading it sounds like that would be a really wise idea (dust, sump pump, etc). Just thinking about working on a finished basement makes me want to reduce my layout expectations...
@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:If you have fixed points dictating the maximum layout size, just build the bench work since you know that won’t change. Then, just throw track down in the layout you designed and see how you like it. Audition it before you make anything permanent. I’ve often found that the layout I carefully crafted isn’t ideal once I start playing trains and I end up changing stuff around. When you’re happy with it, then start screwing it down and making scenery etc.
I like this idea but the problem is that I want to build the benchwork to a layout design - the moment I build benchwork, that limits what I can do (eg, O72 reverse loops can't be place just anywhere if I want to stick to the 30" reach-rule). I do like the "don't screw it down until you're sure you like it" idea though.
@Greg Houser posted:Forgive me but I have to laugh - but not in a condescending way.
Our club layout is 185' x 30'. One individual loop around the layout is longer than a football field. Guess what? We have the same problem as you do with finding space for everything!
You MUST face reality and think long and hard about your list of Givens and Druthers! Givens are things you can do nothing about and MUST accept - like the size of your room, money to spend, etc. Druthers are the things you want - like a coal mine, do want loops to watch the trains run or do you want to run prototypical ops, etc. Once you narrow down your Druthers based on your Givens, the design should come easily. If you're not willing or capable to get to a list of Druthers based on your Givens just stop now and take up something else.
I laughed when I read the club had trouble finding space for everything on a 185' x 30' layout! I guess my problem with the givens and druthers is that I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want to have it all, but it's not working for me. I'll think about this long and hard about what I'm willing to part with.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:We can all appreciate your plight. You will get a lot of recommendations; which can also add to your frustration. First try DoubleDaz (Dave) suggestion. He has impressive insights into design efforts. My suggestion would be to use painters tape and do a mock up on the floor. Then take some paper and just draw lines for your track with a pencil.
Jay
I like the painter's tape idea!
Thank you all for your insight and wisdom! God bless 
