@Landsteiner posted:"unless you can afford BTO Legacy stuff, Lionel sucks. "
Not true in my experience. I buy almost exclusively non-BTO stuff and the value for dollar has been good for LionChief and LionChief Plus locos at prices similar to HO and N.
For beginners and most consumers who buy only a set and some track, maybe a second loco and some rolling stock, the prices are similar to many other hobbies. A few hundred dollars, which ain't peanuts, but no different as a proportion of income than toy trains have ever been in historical memory. A nice slot car setup or a few R/C planes and cars will cost about the same. Video games more expensive, but in a different category.
The quality has been good in my experience, contrary to the usual rants here : ) (zero problems over the last 5-10 years). If you want a scale model railroad in any gauge, with command control, such as DCC, DCS, Legacy, you're going to spend more money, of course. More like the thousands, not hundreds of dollars.
LionChief and LionChief Plus provide command control at reasonable prices and great simplicity and reliability in my experience. Fastrack is safer for children to assemble, like most roadbed systems, and quite reliable, if pricey.
This is a niche, not mass hobby, and prices reflect that lack of economy of scale (unintentional pun). Complaining about pricing is very similar to complaining that other people earn more money than I do. Gets you nowhere. Lots of good value on the previously enjoyed market if you seek out information and help from the knowledgeable experienced hobbyists. If you want top of the line Legacy locos, the pricing is going to be higher, just like buying a top of the line car, house, computer, home security system, etc. Most cannot afford that and live happy lives anyhow.
I agree with your ideas. I should've been more specific in stating that Lionel is undesirable based on my expectations at this point in my journey through the hobby.
My aim isn't to complain about price- I remember watching a TM trains video on the history of Lionel (copyright 1991) wherein one of Dick Kughn's underlings said, "Lionel has never been a cheap product, and it will never be a cheap product, but you get value when you buy a Lionel product." Seeing that at age 10 made me think that guy was a jerk, but the quote is still accurate 30 years later.
You accurately point out that Lionel still offers value at 2-3 different pricepoints.
My concern is that with ever rising production costs and already thin margins, at what point does the balance of hobbyist buying power and Lionel's ability to make profit or break even shift to the place that it's no longer a viable business.
I don't feel that it will necessarily help Lionel not to have a direct competitor in all areas of the O scale market.
History has shown us that even when Lionel had a commanding market share over American Flyer and Ives,it was in and out of recrivership. I feel that the possibility of history repeating itself is high.
