So many times when reading posts on the forum, I am reminded of something Alan Miller used to say a good deal: We've met the enemy and the enemy is us.
For example, people wanted cheap prices, bought trains mail order and then wondered why local hobby shops were closing? There are certainly many other examples too. People wanted new models that have never been made before (which requires new R&D and expensive tooling) and then people complain about high prices. Which by the way, for the scale stuff, need to be a lot higher. The starter set traditional line non-scale products keep Lionel in business. And the prices of scale and traditional rolling stock are NOT that far apart. The US made LionScale cars are priced less than a foreign made traditional car. SO to me, that means Lionel is actually holding down prices of scale stuff. Lionel recently had to completely retool the scale milk cars. Who paid for that?? For sure, not the limited number of customers buying the scale milk cars.
Craftech wrote: I can get parts for those old trains, yet built in obsolescence for today's trains is considered acceptable business. Should we no longer expect things to last even at premium prices?
Circuit boards fail. I've had CD and DVD players stop working, so I take them apart to cob for parts... anything like screws, washers, etc. Inevitably, every time so far, the DC motors still work. It is the circuit boards that fail. But because these items are sold in the millions, you can buy another one cheaper than trying to have the old one repaired... if you could even find someone these days that does that. And how about smartphones and computers: You have to replace those every few years. Anyone still using Windows Vista or Microsoft Word 2000?
The premium prices of trains have a lot to do with the SMALL production runs. On top of that, some people want more realism, unique features and operating functions. So today's standardization of parts for trains is nothing like it was during the postwar or MPC eras. Factor into that, components that go into the trains become unavailable. Like DC motors. So then the train company has to partially retool a design to accept a new style motor. Mike Wolf talked about that once, how a motor became unavailable so they had to completely redesign and retool the power truck. NO company eats those costs and stays in business: They cut corners somewhere or raise prices.
From listening to videos and podcasts from other manufacturers in other scales, the minimum production number from China that gets spoken of the most is 300. I suppose that could vary between Chinese factory vendors, but that three hundred number comes up a lot. Within that 300, it appears that the train makers can do various paint schemes so long as there are a minimum of 25.
But the HO companies don't worry about that as much. As I've heard them say, they can introduce a new locomotive and sell several thousand in the first run. Lionel is not selling several thousand of any high end loco, save for the once in a blue moon, out of the ballpark home run.
Allegheny wrote: Folks that can't really afford to have a $900+ engine or set disintegrate on them without spare parts being available are going to be gun shy. It is only natural.
The manufacturers must come up with a viable solution - as its the right thing to do.
And what is that solution? Stop introducing new models? Go to a postwar/MPC era method of putting a new shell on an existing motor frame for a new loco model? Do away with added parts and make all details molded in, so you do away with having to stock all these additional parts? Make generic sounds and functions for ALL locomotives, so you have one type of circuit board that gets used in every single locomotive?
On a production run of 300 locomotives, how much of an overrun should they do for parts? 5%? 10%? So they do 10% and have 30 extra locomotives to strip for parts. How long will those parts be in stock for? Especially when Lionel does a yearly parts sale?
And this is not exclusive to low production high end products. I've read too many threads on LionChief and LionChief+ boards and motors failing with no parts available. Factor into that scenario that many of these electronic parts are not made available to parts dealers and that products have to be sent back to Lionel proper for service. And that products out of warranty won't be serviced. That goodness for the handful of guys here such as Gunrunnerjohn, who are knowledgeable and willing to offer repair advice here.
I'm not criticizing anyone specifically here. But we (not everyone, but those with the loudest voices) got what we wanted. We wanted new tooling, so all the train makers went to China to be able to afford that. We wanted unique new scale models and we got them. Though the bigger the minimum required curve for a particular product, the smaller the number of potential buyers.
Lionel is no different these days than many other electronics makers: Try getting parts for an old computer, or an old vacuum cleaner or an old anything. Parts ARE NOT available. You have to replace it with a new one.
Or if you're lucky and the item sold in large quantities, you buy another used one to cob for parts (save for circuit boards)... if you know what you are doing to repair it. Same goes for trains. There are lots of train items with parts no longer available (smoke units for starter set 4-4-2's for example). But Lionel made multiple tens of thousands of starter set 4-4-2 steam engines. So I buy an extra used one to cob for parts. Same goes for many other mass produced starter line products. That scenario changes dramatically when they only made few hundred of the product you need parts for.
Or how about Williams by Bachmann: They're not noted for making high end products, yet go to their website and look for parts. Good luck: They're not available. Anyone buying the WBB scale 44 ton switcher had better buy two of them: One to run and one for parts, because that model has already been discontinued.
Addendum: On the topic of zinc pest, I had 3 or 4 K-Line Classic type sprung die cast trucks that were purchased as parts, that crumbled apart on me. No other zinc pest issues. But I buy mostly large production run starter types of products - whether that has anything to do with the issue. Many of my 4-4-2 steamers were Chinese made by Sanda Kan (even when the box said "Made in America" the shells were still made in China). Yet it appears Sanda Kan had the Z.P. issue with Williams products, which they were also making.
Just an observation, but it does appear like this problem seems to crop up more frequently with lower production run products.
