Tagged With "Protosound"

Topic

3 Rail Conversion of Sunset Brass

Will Ebbert ·
Hello all, I have a 1980(ish) Sunset Models N&W J Class 4-8-4. It is all original (right now) and I need to convert it from 2 rail operation to 3 rail. I have found a company that will install MTH ProtoSound 3 in it, but I was wondering work I need to do to prepare it for that. For the wheels I am using Lionel's parts for their recent rendition of the 611. Obviously I will need to install pickup rollers, but should I also use the Lionel motor or is there a better option? Also, are there...
Topic

Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

ipmagcol ·
I have bought an MTH RailKing PCC Street Car with ProtoSound version 1.0. When I first got it, I put it on my Loinel track with DC for a short while. Now with AC power it just seems to stand in "RESET" state (not moving at all). The sound seams to be there and the bell dings two times upon startup. Can I have damaged the DCRU electronic reverse unit by running DC? I have got it running on AC power by shifting the yellow connectors so the engine gets power from the marker light connector, now...
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Engine problems

Gandydancer ·
I have a 2-8-8-4 Premiere Yellowstone Steam engine with ProtoSound, MTH catalog #20-3030-1 and has a BCR install in it.  It was featured in the 1999 Vol.1 MTH catalog.  I was running it in conventional mode with my Z-4000 Transformer.  The engine worked perfectly until I stopped it, and throttled the transformer back to "O" volts.  The engine now had no power to it.  While checking a piece of track in front of my transformer I accidentally throttled the transformer...
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Re: Engine problems

GGG ·
3 clanks is software conflict, mth sells a kit to rest the processor. Or an MTH tech in your area can do it. G
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Re: Engine problems

Gandydancer ·
Thanks GGG
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

rrvics ·
Original Protosounds was designed to work with pure sine wave transformers, like most postwar Lionel transformers and the Z4000. Original Protosounds will not work with chopped sine wave transformers, which all new Lionel transformers are.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

ReadingFan ·
ProtoSounds is a MTH adaptation of QSIndustries electronic reverse and sound systems. All were designed for postwar transformers that produced "pure" (full wave) AC. Modern transformers like the ZW-L produce "chopped" AC: the crest of AC "waves" are cut off. When these transformers came on the market in the 1990's, MTH and QSI customers complained that their locomotives wouldn't run. QSI manuals listed compatible and incompatible transformers. MTH designed the Z4000 for QSI systems and even...
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Pine Creek Railroad ·
Jim R, Simply use an old KW or ZW Transformer, with 10 Amp Resettable Breakers or a Z4K and your P1 MTH Engine will work just fine. PCRR/Dave
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Jim R. ·
Thanks guys. I thought it was likely the wave signature of the ZW-L. Since it is a club layout, Dave, I probably won't be able to pick what transformer I use, but with this information, I might convince the club to keep at least one of the layouts, of the 11, hooked up to a Z-4000. The club actually just replaced the Z-4000s with ZW-Ls this month, and some of the Z-4000s are still on hand. Obviously, most guys aren't running original Protosounds anymore at the club, but there may be a few.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

GGG ·
Some of what was said above is not accurate. EARLY QSI and MTH units DO require pure sine wave so that is probably your issue. Later QSI improved the design to work on modern transformers and even had a reset state for selecting transformer type. Later MTH starting around late 1996 could work with modern transformers. I run my MTH PS-1 on ZW-C, Power Master, and a K-Line (CW-80 like) transformer and they work fine. BUT, early stuff can be an issue, and sometimes component tolerance change...
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

phillyreading ·
This is good to know as I have one older MTH PS-1 engine and a Weaver engine with QSI sound system. So my older transformers are good to use with PS-1. I can't afford a new transformer at over $650.00 for one so I am sticking with post war transformers like the ZW & KW with added on circuit breakers and TVS units. Lee Fritz
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

sinclair ·
As I stated in your friend's thread, try putting a lighted caboose or passenger car in the same power block as your PS-1 locomotive, and it should leave reset. Once I started doing this with my PS-1 locomotives, I've never had a locomotive not leave reset on any of the non-pure wave transformers people claim they won't work on.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

gunrunnerjohn ·
One thing I've found to damp the effect of the sawtooth waveform from electronic transformers is a 10uf 50V non-polarized capacitor across the track feed. This seems to have a very beneficial effect in most cases.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

RRaddict2 ·
I changed out the sound chip and it fixed the problem for me. I don't know if anyone else here has tried that. I got the chip from a RK K-4.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Ted S ·
I like GRJ's suggestion. I've never 'scoped the waveform of a ZW-L, but based on our club's experience with Powermaster PM-1's, I suggest at least 100uF, especially if you want the sound to work (chuffing speed may be off though.) Some of those early PS1s are pretty finicky. Also, put the cap in a ventilated metal enclosure. Because it will get hot, and you don't want to be near it if it bursts! -Ted
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Jim R. ·
Sorry, Sinclair. Adding the five lighted passenger cars made no difference.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Gregg ·
It's too bad you couldn't trick the engine , Start it up with an old lionel pure wave transformer or Z-4000 and run it out to the main controlled by the Lionel L. . Should be good until next power down.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Pine Creek Railroad ·
Jim R, This is why I wanted Sinclair to advise you of just which Coboose he found that actually made the difference, for some reason it does matter, some work some do not. For this reason I gave you the advise, to use the different transformers that actually cured the running problem. PCRR/Dave
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

sinclair ·
Where they LED? All mine are still incandescent bulbs, so I never thought about testing with LEDs in the cars. And no, it didn't matter the brand, but I can say most of my lighted cabooses and passenger cars are MTH. I have not had any issues with my Legacy signal.
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

GGG ·
There can be a lot of variables in the PS-1 electronic and the Electronic Transformers that allow one to work and another not too. There have been plenty of folks that have an issue with early PS-1 and certain transformers. Despite lighted lock-on and cars. The manufactures, both QSI and MTH had some warnings and QSI modified the board. So I doubt a simple bulb solved everyone's problem. Otherwise why modify the electronics? G
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Pine Creek Railroad ·
Sinclair, Which lighted Caboose works the best, Lionel, MTH, Atlas, list a few for us to know exactly which one's are getting the job done for you, when running the P1 Engines with the ZW-L. Remember however if you do this near your Legacy you could have other problems with it, and can they be LED lights in the Caboose. Note the unlighted Caboose in the picture that now runs at the end of my Legacy controlled Christmas Box Car Train. Was pulling the light Weaver Shriner Caboose and it...
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Re: MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Jim R. ·
Thanks guys. Obviously, I don't want to force the club to make changes on my account, especially when I have other options. But this info will help me decide how to manage my future home layout (aside from my 3 x 8 foot O27 layout) for the broad mix of Lionel, MTH, K-Line, Williams and other large locomotives I have.
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

ipmagcol ·
Thanks Nick but it did not work, I will try with a MTH transformer. Cheers! Magnus
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

ipmagcol ·
AC is the version, I am pretty certain, it has an AC/DC rectifier in it. BR Magnus
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

ipmagcol ·
This one has the BCR (capacitor battery) red. I have also tried with a regular 9 volt battery. BR Magnus
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

GGG ·
I do not think so, it rectifies the incoming AC to DC. SO the DC would just be filtered. Did it ever run on AC? After the 2 dings, do you lower voltage to less than 10V to come out of reset? G
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

ipmagcol ·
Thanks for your reply! I first run it on DC. Then on AC and it never comes out of the reset state. I have measured the AC voltage coming out of the transformer with a voltmeter and I follow the instructions with slowly lowering the speed control to 0-position and then turns it on again to higher speed control positions. I use an old Märklin transformer maybe it needs to be an MTH/Lionel transformer? I guess I need it anyway to control the bell, horn, direction? BR Magnus
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

Nick12DMC ·
Magnus, You could try putting the wiring back to original in the street car. Then try AC power again. Disconnect one of the wires from the transformer to the track. Then power the transformer up. Then touch the disconnected wire to the terminal remove it again after a few seconds and repeat. The street car reverse unit should cycle. Normaly reverse unit cycles through 3 positions. Forward, neutral, reverse. Some start in neutral then forward, then neutral, then reverse. Every interruption in...
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

C W Burfle ·
I don't know whether this will be of any help. I have a Railking 2503 PCC Street car, which I thought was their first offering. The instructions state that it has a QSI DCRU electronic reverse unit, and it is upgradeable to "Protosound Digital Sound and Train Control" There is no mention of it being AC only.
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

GGG ·
Did you replace the battery with new? IF this is original PS-1 and has the original battery, good chance the battery is dead and the engine may even have a software conflict now. IF this is your first PS-1 engine, best to take it to a tech who can test and reprogram the engine if it scrambled. IF you have other PS-1 and know how to operate them, go through all the normal steps, new battery, reset 18 etc... G
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Re: Damaged the electronics running DC instead of AC+

GGG ·
Well, can be simple software glitch requiring reprogramming, bad board, bad chip. Pull chip and reseat flush with PLCC holder. Use the tool for chip removal. G
Topic

MTH 3 to 2 Rail Convertible Locos w Proto Sound 3.0

newtoO ·
Hi All, I am a 3-rail person going to 2-rail and want to thank everyone for their posts and insights on converting 3-rail locos to 2-rail. I have learned a lot and was able to put this little search query together to help other newbies like me...
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Nashville Area Members-Request for help

Oldham4 ·
Greetings fellow forum members, I am wondering if there are any members that live in the Greater Nashville Tennessee area, who would be willing to provide a little help. I have a PS-2 Steam locomotive, whose board I recently had to replace. ...
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MTH K4s (original Protosounds) using Lionel ZW-L

Jim R. ·
A friend tried to post a question on my behalf, but mingled it with a question of his own, which complicated the matter. So, to simply, I'll restate the question I have. I recently began running an MTH Premier K4s, which is equipped with original Protosounds and a BCR (in place of the original NiCad). The engine runs fine using my MTH Z-4000 transformer. I simply charge up the BCR for a minute at 10 volts, turn the throttle down to under 10 volts, and then take it out of reset with a push of...
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MTH NON-Working Protosound-2 Board

Dan Padova ·
I am doing repairs to an MTH locomotive. I removed the Protosound-2 board as I have other plans for the innards of this loco. The seller I purchased the loco from claimed that the PS-2 board was not working. The board is available to anyone who would like it, for postage alone.
Topic

MTH Protosound-2 Question

Dan Padova ·
So I am looking at an MTH loco on Ebay. The seller states he does not know the amount of miles or time on the loco. Do these newer loco s have some sort of odometer ?
Topic

RK-1113L Protosound 1 PS1 Dryfuss Hudson without battery?

Jim Haley ·
I am replacing all the batteries in my MTH locos with BCR replacements. I opened my RK-1113L PS1 Dryfuss Hudson (purchased second hand) but there is no 9V battery that I can see (or any battery at all). There are two boards stacked in the tender and one has an almost battery sized black box but it soldered to the board and does not look like a battery. The black box has a sticker on it that says QSI Patent No.'S 4,914, 431,5, 184, 078 & Patents pending. Anyone know where my battery is? I...
Topic

Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

Copter ·
I own the MTH 4-6-0 Steam Freight R-T-R Train Set w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (30-4215-1).  I would like to install a flickering fire box and two green marker lights in the 4-6-0 Steamer.  Within the locomotive, are there powerports on the DCS...
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

GGG ·
John, What about the inductor, or have you done this with no degradation to the dcs signal? G
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
Crap, I totally forgot about the 33uh choke! Put that in front of the diode in the hot side rail!
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
Do you run conventional or command? Unless you want to attempt to control the markers, I just use track voltage. For the flickering firebox, I buy the LED tea candles from a Dollar Store and remove the flickering LED, cheapest source I've found. They work great for the firebox, gives you the flickering effect for no effort, just a diode, capacitor, and a resistor from track power. You can power the classification LED's the same way. A 1N4003 diode, a 220uf 35V capacitor, and a 1K resistor...
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

Copter ·
I run command control. How would I wire to remotely control the marker lights and flickering firebox?
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
Well, the short answer is, it's difficult and maybe impossible, depending on the actual installation. That's why I asked. I'm not familiar with the wiring on the PS/3 stuff, but for PS/2, the sound files control the functionality of the various functions, and if they're not in the product, you usually don't have that control. The simple way is to just run them from track power. It may be possible to trigger them from the headlight, but I'm guessing you'd need some electronics as I don't know...
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

Copter ·
gunrunnerjohn, I will likely use track power to run the lights. Firebox could go either way, track power or smoke unit power. I need to test the smoke unit power output prior to making a decision. I appreciate your insight.
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
I'm sure the 10ma or so of power for the flickering light wouldn't be an issue for the smoke unit power supply. They do change the power to the smoke unit based on the smoke output setting, I think that's a PWM signal, but I've never measured it.
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
Here you go.
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

Copter ·
gunrunnerjohn, I really appreciate your knowledge on the matter. I plan to purchase the components you suggested this evening and begin construction. Thank you again for all of your help!
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

gunrunnerjohn ·
No problem, we look forward to the video.
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Re: Proto-Sound 3 Powerports?

Copter ·
You got it. Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn: No problem, we look forward to the video.
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Re: MTH 3 to 2 Rail Convertible Locos w Proto Sound 3.0

Hudson J1e ·
Originally Posted by newtoO: @Hudson, great point! I thought you could "re-tool" the standard MTH offerings for 2-rail but, don't know anyone who has done so successfully. It makes good sense. The reason I reached out to Joe @ Baldwin is because I am getting the new MTH R-142 subway set which only comes in a 3-rail version but, obviously I would need to get it to 2-rail. I have never attempted a conversion myself and am very hesitant to to start out on a brand new set with PS 3 in it. I...
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