Tagged With "grade"

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AF #302 Up Graded Engine Shell

CUSTOM "O" DECALS ·
"S" #302 Plastic Engine Shell W/LED's Being offered at auction now: http://lbrenterprisesllc.homestead.com/Bid-Sales.html?_=1410703029914 Time: 11:30 AM (EST) Date: 12-08-2015 Item To Being Auctioned: #302 Plastic Engine Shell (EX) with LED head light & LED green marker lights LBRSRP: $45.00 - $75.00 USD Opening Bid: $25.00 USD Dave, LBR
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Bridgeboss Jim ·
I use an approximate 3% rise on my personal layout only because I run other heavier Steam Engines besides my Subway sets both Lionel and MTH. I would have to agree that these Subway sets will handle 4-6 % rises rather easily. See below a few photos of my Elevated graduated and curved sections. thanks. jim r
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Joe P ·
I try to limit my grades to under 4%. 3.7% or 3.8% is the max.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

bluelinec4 ·
That is type 1. We made that to match some that we had bought from another company. The type 2 is closer to NYC subways structure and is much cheaper than the type 1.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

bluelinec4 ·
We make them at the NJ HiRailers SilkCity bridgeworks is the name of the company Very different than Jim from Bridgeboss These are made to order Email silkcitybridgeworks@yahoo.com
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

bluelinec4 ·
The MTH Premier cars are scale cars The R62 Railking is scale and the Lionel R27,R30 and R16 are scale. When I get to the club I will measure the Q Cars This pic shows how tight we went on the R17 There is about 1/4 clearance from the top of the car to the El crossmember
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Calabrese94 ·
Originally Posted by bluelinec4: The MTH Premier cars are scale cars The R62 Railking is scale and the Lionel R27,R30 and R16 are scale. When I get to the club I will measure the Q Cars This pic shows how tight we went on the R17 There is about 1/4 clearance from the top of the car to the El crossmember If You Don't mind me asking are those elevated structure from bridge boss ? Thanks
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

RailRide ·
They're made in-house as part of " Silk City Bridgeworks " ---PCJ
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
@Bluelinec4, thanks! I appreciate all the help and suggestions. I am excited about getting started on my first subway line. Chris
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
@AcelaNYP, Yep, the prototype clearances are real tight and I am cool with that, I just don't want to build myself in to a corner if you know what I mean. That photo is great and the drawings are real helpful. I think the biggest variances are going to be from the manufacturers Lionel and MTH and trying to be flexible to accomodate the addition of future cars, within reason. Chris
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

AcelaNYP ·
Absolutely - keep in mind neither Lionel or MTH are truly to scale, but I would use the MTH subway cars as a reference as they are taller than Lionel's. I have the Lionel R27 and MTH R17 cars, and the R17s are noticeably taller and boxier. -John
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Calabrese94 ·
Originally Posted by RailRide: They're made in-house as part of " Silk City Bridgeworks " ---PCJ What type is that elevated 2 ?
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Calabrese94 ·
No no im sorry for the confusion i meant in the pictures u posted which product is that type2 ? Thank you
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

AcelaNYP ·
Lionel's and MTH's subway cars are about 3-3/8" tall (from the top of the rails), so I would recommend at least 3-5/8" minimum clearance to compensate for any track irregularities or at the top/bottom of the grade. Graduated trestle sets top off at anywhere from 4-3/4" (Lionel) to 6" (MTH) tall, which is more than enough for the subways. -JOhn
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

AcelaNYP ·
The R142/R142A cars were built for the IRT Division of the NYC subway, which has more restrictive clearances than the Independent (IND) Division. IRT cars are 51'-4" long versus 60' or 75' on the IND. The IRT tunnels are built to the "Contract 1" part of the diagram from nycsubway.org. -John
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

bluelinec4 ·
That math doesn't add up Jerry 1/4 inch a foot adds up to one inch in four feet. We have a section that is 1/2 inch per foot and a four car train makes it up no problem but six car trains struggle. Don't go by other trains recommendations because the MTH & Lionel subways are much heavier than normal cars. Their trucks aren't as free rolling as others too.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
@Bluelinec4, Hi, thanks for the help. 1/2" rose to a 1' foot of run puts it at about 4.17% grade. Hmmm, that will challenging, may need a turnback or something to get more run. Thanks. Chris
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
@AcelaNYP, thanks. Ok, will have to mock up an 11 or 12 foot run and see how the trains run on it up and down at different grades before I build it permanently in to the layout.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
How many inches is the minimum for clearance for the Subway sets? perhaps if I can limit the rise it will shorten the run I need to make up to the next level. For example instead of 6" between levels (requires a 12' run @ 1/2" per foot), perhaps I could go 5.5" or 5" which are prototypical 22' and 20' feet and would only require a 11' or 10' run as described earlier. What do you think? Thanks, Chris
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Bill Robb ·
Prototype subway tunnel clearances are very tight . The clearances show up well in Toronto because of the light colored station roofs . Just make sure it leaves enough room for everything you want to run on the line. The prototype has cars built to their tunnel dimensions. We don't have that luxury. EDIT: Here's a diagram from nyc.subway.org showing tunnel dimensions from the Independent Subway . Car dimensions are 60 feet long, 10 feet wide and 12 feet 2 inch car height. Tunnel height is 13...
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

Bobby Ogage ·
My El lines have 6.5% grades, and the MTH Rail King LoV and Q trains I run negotiate the grades very well. Each of these trains has a single powered unit. Traction tires are a must have! Speed control is put to the test on these grades and there is some slowing.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

AcelaNYP ·
Chris- In general, 4-5% is the maximum most O scale trains can handle. Lionel's or MTH's graduated trestle sets would be the maximum grade the cars could handle safely without stalling. However, the steepest grades coming in/out of stations on the "prototype" is about 2%, but there are a few areas where grades exceed 5%. -John
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

MCD4x4 ·
I remember reading somewhere the best bet was to go a quarter inch per foot. So one inch in for foot.
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Re: What is your max grade for Subways

bluelinec4 ·
The tallest cars are the MTh Q cars I will measure them for you to get the clearance You can make things very tight
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What is your max grade for Subways

newtoO ·
Hi All, I am looking at building a small subway layout and would like to model the actual subway with station underground and it transition to elevated which is about a 11 or 12" vertical difference and I am limited on space.  What is the...
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Beginning or ending a grade change

Pat Coil ·
When beginning or ending a grade change is it best to start and/or end with a new piece of track or to start changing the grade at some place other than a joint?
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

PRR1950 ·
Other than a joint is always better. Otherwise, you run the risk of a vertical kink that your engines will literally run into and either stop (if slow speed) or derail (if high speed). Chuck
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

J Daddy ·
The real issue is the slope of the grade. If you are forced into a steep grade, start and stop your grade very gently, say start with a half or 1 percent slope, then transition the grade as you go. Take your longest engine and car and verify the train does not bottom out where the grade stops and starts. I use two Atlas 21" Budd cars. They are VERY unforgiving. Avoid any grades that stop or start on a curve if you can.
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Serenska ·
I'm sure I'll be able to figure this out when I get there, but I have to ask a newbie-ish question that's related to this thread. I'm asking because, with the exception of a 110 Trestle set on the carpet, I've never been one to build grades on a layout. We will be building a modest grade on a tubular track layout we are building. The grade will really just be a slight rise along an 8' section of straight track. So, in other words, 4' up to the peak, and then 4' down. The grade that we will...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

turbgine ·
If you keep the grade at 2% or less you will have no problems with starting and stopping the grade. So, that means 100 inches to rise 2 inches. To clear the track below I would use no less than 5.5 inches from the lower rail to the upper roadbed. This means 275 inches to reach 5.5 inches of clearance. It not only works right but it looks right. With a 2% grade or less you can continue the grade on curves without difficulty. I use Gargraves Phantom Rail and it works beautifully . It is used...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Pennsylover ·
I agree with all the very good advice given so far, but I'll add that the Woodland Scenics styrofoam risers available in a wide variety of grades make laying track on grades incredibly easy. Well worth the money. Dale Pennsylover
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Ironhorseman ·
I find using longer sections of track in the center of the grade allows you more flexibility where you place your supports. Using shorter pieces at the grade transitions can make it easier to fit in a smaller space. As noted above, test with temporary setups and use your longest engine and rolling stock. Also test with any rolling stock that has lower clearances like heavy duty depressed flat cars, Schnabel cars, or similar. My last test is always a longer consist to see if any cars bind or...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

CAPPilot ·
I'm not sure what type of grade Pat will be doing. If he would give us some additional info on what he is planning (length of climb and how high) would help. It looks like Stephen is just going to go up for four feet (maybe to a bridge crossing a river, or just for scenic effect?), then back down. It doesn't look like he is going over another track. If he uses a 2 percent grade, his track will rise only 1", 3 percent 1.5" and 4 percent 2". I've used the same technic at both the start of the...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Adriatic ·
Another factor is coupler shaft length. A longer reach means more drop or rise at the knuckle during grade transitions. Ease into them even if your grade maximum is steeper. I have a longer transition at the crest where the load while climbing is higher from cars entering the grade. It gives more uniform traction opportunity on the climb.
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Ace ·
I've done tests with grades up to 10% and currently have a long stretch of 8% grade that starts with an O40 single-turn helix. Grades of 4% to 6% are not unreasonable for most three-rail trains if you have moderate-length trains and powerful locomotives. Steep grades can have reliable operation if you avoid kinks and twists in the track . Steep grades allow more possibilities in track planning for limited space. For the newbie people who have so many questions about how to build grades: may...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

J Daddy ·
"We will be building a modest grade on a tubular track layout we are building. The grade will really just be a slight rise along an 8' section of straight track. So, in other words, 4' up to the peak, and then 4' down." I am thinking you mean 4 inches up and and 4 inches down? not 4' or 4 foot? So rise/run X 100 percent is your slope. your run is then 1/2 the 8ft... so 4/96 x 100= 4.2 percent slope which is quite aggressive with no room for a flat at the top of the grade. Can you lengthen...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

Serenska ·
Ron: Thanks very much for these thoughts. I was going to head in the direction you describe, but it's somehow quite helpful to see it all written down by someone else. Yes, this particular rise won't cause one track to rise over another. We only need to have enough of rise/fall to simulate the subtle arch of a suspension bridge. Something like: The plan is that, if we find the grade to be too steep for the available length, we will do a "fake out" effect of making the side girders more...
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Re: Beginning or ending a grade change

GNERR ·
Grades are a lot of fun. Here is some early video of my double track, up and over, figure 8 layout. It's based on the Atlas HO Granite Gorge and Northern. Grades on this are 3-4%. Layout size is 8' X 14'. I agree with ACE. Test out some grades with your equipment and go from there.. Larry
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Re: Bump-and-go trolleys on grades -- how steep is too steep?

bajinnova ·
Michael, what kind of trolley was that? Great information, thanks to both of you!
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Bump-and-go trolleys on grades -- how steep is too steep?

bajinnova ·
I'm planning an O-gauge layout for me to build with my kids (ages 3, 5, and 8; my first O-gauge layout, and the first layout of any kind I've had for ~25 years). I'm thinking of something along the lines of the kid-oriented layout that was in the 12/2015 issue of CTT: two unconnected levels, with the upper level on a mountain that covers the back portion of the layout. I like the idea of avoiding grades for the trains (for ease of construction and operation), but I was thinking it might be...
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Re: Bump-and-go trolleys on grades -- how steep is too steep?

Michael Hokkanen ·
Allow me to add a little to this but not change the essential question. I bought a bump and go trolley that worked OK most of the time but was too light to be reliable. At any speed necessary for effective operation it would intermittently derail itself on a bump terminus and hang up, often tripping the Z-1000 breaker. To add weight seemed to put a strain on the motor. So, weight and reliability of the trolley along with grade complete the equation. I am told that some of the earlier Lionel...
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Re: Bump-and-go trolleys on grades -- how steep is too steep?

SJC ·
The MTH Trolleys do not have traction tires. I ran one on my club module last year, which was on a grade. Don't remember how much of a grade but it struggled on the up hill portion. I have two Bump and Gos on my layout, both flat/level track. The Lionel, unless it has been modified, is substantially lighter than the MTH but does have a traction tire or two. You may have better success with one of those. I had one and it did not last long. I find the MTH bump and gos a bit more durable...
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

clem k ·
Even dirt stone chip or whatever usually have at least wood between the rails.
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afterthought grade crossings

dobermann ·
I'm not much for planning or thinking ahead so I find I need some grade crossings after all the track is ballasted. Roads outside the city will be dirt or tar and chip and that's where all the grade crossings will be. If you have suggestions or can post pics of your non wooden/non concrete crossings Id like to see them. Thanks joe
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

Mike CT ·
Done with small pieces of luan board and a bench sander. The line was done with a scribe tool. Same can be done to the outside of the rails, probably easier. I used luan board and a floor leveling compound for most of the grade work. Green and gravel was added sparingly as a last process after all was painted a dirt brown. A relatively level diorama has a lot of small grades to deal with. IMO, Mike CT Have fun with your project.
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

Dave_C ·
You didn't state what you are using for track. Excess ballast can easily be removed off the ties. I used basswood strips many years ago. If using sectional curves. These are available from www.blairline.com
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

RSJB18 ·
I made by crossing and roads from thin corrugated cardboard. I found a textured black Rustoleum spray paint that looks like asphalt for the road and painted the crossing black. A lot of trial and error to fit the crossing and allow adequate clearance for the wheel flanges on a 027 curve. Bob
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

Hot Water ·
Why "non wooden"? Even unpaved roads, "back in the day" still had wood planks on either side of the rails, in order to keep the dirt/gravel/stone in place. As the photos posted above show, the wood crossings are the absolute best way to go.
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

Matthew Jones ·
Haven't finished the far side of this crossing yet. But it is supposed to represent N old black top road crossing an industrial spur. Based on this real crossing that does not have any wooden guard rails.
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Re: afterthought grade crossings

hold*on ·
I have used N gauge roadbed for crossings -- easy to fit in either curve or straight track sections.
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