Tagged With "R2LC"

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R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
An odd issue cropped up here today, and after chasing it down, I thought others might be interested in the solution. I'm installing a Cruise Commander M and the new ERR RailSounds Commander in a diesel. I'm specifically using the CC-M so I can use the ditch light feature, I used a simple motherboard for the R2LC and just custom cabled it. All was going just great until it came time to do the first test! I fired it up, programmed it, and flipped the switch to run. Everything seemed fine,...
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R2LC Repair

Jim Stefl ·
Those of you who do R2LC repair, any hints before I order parts? What width of desolder braid do you use, do you use a pump, if so any suggestions. Any helpful hints. Many thanks
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TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
My Command Equipped (TMCC) Lionel GP-9 will run for a couple of minutes than come to a complete stop. I suspected dirty track at first, but after a good cleaning the problem remained. I noticed a flicker in the headlight which is a common sign of a weak signal. I doubled the antenna using copper tape and the flicker disappeared, but the problem remained. I then suspected that maybe the R2LC was the problem, I swapped it out with a spare R2LC-04 and guess what, problem solved. But now another...
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

GGG ·
Funny you say "my" It was part of ERR solution originally G
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
I couldn't find the reference to the ERR solution, since it was an independent invention, it's my solution. I thought that ERR only had issues with the wireless tether, I didn't realize they had issues with an all wired solution.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

GGG ·
Sure you have it, you gave me a an old copy of the diagram. Boxcar Bill had posted at one point. They do have issues with some board sets not working with newer 5.0 sound sets. Mini CDR EX is one. Would drive 4.0, but not the new ones now. CC-M also. So the "solution" which amplifies Serial Data is certainly going to fix any of these issues I think. G
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
Must be that old age setting in.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

PLCProf ·
I was looking just today at the Cruise M for use in a project. Just out of curiosity, did you originally connect the Railsounds Commander and the Cruise M in parallel, so they both feed from the R2LC, or did you use the Serial Data Out on the Cruise M (pin 2 on J4) to feed the Railsounds Commander?
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
First I connected them in parallel, then I tried the serial-out on the CC-M, didn't work. That's when I broke out the 'scope to see why. I didn't check the serial-out with the 'scope, but wired directly to the RS Commander, it acted like it wasn't there. The CC-M worked fine, so it was getting serial data. I think the new CC-M that's the "universal" one has no problem with the parallel connection, this was the earlier version. I had several that were still in the wrap from several years ago.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

GGG ·
John, This was the fix for the IR tethered version. You sure you had the correct CC-M. The new ones have the attenuated signal. This is not suppose to happen on a diesel. I have not seen this issue occur on diesels. Maybe a bad ERR RS Cdr? G
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
George, you did see that I said these were the previous version of the CC-M, right? This also happens on the TMCC back-EMF driver from Lionel parts, I tried that one as well, same problem. Like I said, I have used the new "universal" ones without issue in the same configuration. I am curious what is different about the serial data output, I'll have to look at that some day. I figured that would solve the problem, but the RS Commander acted like the serial data wasn't there when I connected that.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

Former Member ·
Interesting, I have a repair in form Len B on this here forum that is showing an intermittent issue that is exactly these symptoms. I have yet to be able to replicate the issue after several running sessions
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
Does it use the new ERR RS Commander? I don't know if I'd have the same issue with the older RS4 boards, didn't check.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

Marty Fitzhenry ·
John, did you hit the 5V from pins 19-20 on the R2LC and the other to serial pin 24?
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
Yep, I used pin 20 for the 5V power and pin 24 for the serial data. The output of the buffer feeds the RS Commander. With that installed, everything works fine, and the serial data has an additional volt + of amplitude, obviously the RS Commander imposes more of a load than I'd expect for a new product. I'm guessing it's feeding an opto-isolator as the rest of the circuit's DC ground is NOT common with the frame ground like TMCC.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

Marty Fitzhenry ·
John, are pins 3&4 on the R2LC using frame ground? You say it is just using ground from board and not shared frame ground.
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
Of course they are Marty. What I said was the new RS Commander doesn't have DC common and frame ground connected. The RS Commander has a full wave rectifier directly after the track power comes in, so any attempt to ground any pin but the incoming power pin will allow the magic smoke to escape. That is different than the R2LC that uses a half-wave rectifier and has it's DC signal common the same as frame ground (wheels)
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

Marty Fitzhenry ·
Got ya
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

GGG ·
No I did not see a call out on version, but since this is diesel I would not have thought it would matter except the new RS from ERR seem to need a stronger signal. I think this is an issue with the Sound CDR requiring a stronger signal, and I think that is what they must have modified on the new CC-M. Even the older board for dummies no longer supports Rail Sounds with the newer sound board. G
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Re: R2LC Serial Data Buffer

gunrunnerjohn ·
I suspect my little emitter follower may be more useful than I imagined. Now that I see how easy it it to whack one together, that will no longer be an issue. Of course, for the dummy locomotive board would have the issue of finding a source of 5V to power the circuit. It's clearly the sound board that is stepping on the signal, it drops the amplitude of the serial data from a bit over 4V p-p to around 3v p-p.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
I decided to do some additional testing with some spare Radio Boards I have. Here's what I found: the R2LC-08 and the R4LC-08 performed perfectly with the ERR CC-M motor driver, no issues with sound or stalling. I then installed a R2LC-C13 board thinking I would get the same results...wrong. The R2LC-C13 performed well with the sounds, but soon stalled/reset after a few minutes of running. I went through the proper reprogramming for each board. My advice is to stick with the 08 boards. Hope...
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

GGG ·
Do you know that the C13 works properly with other boards? R2LC are getting long in the tooth, and they degrade over time with the receiver chip. Poor TMCC reception seems to cause cruise issues too. G
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
I've had several occasions to use the C13 with the CC-M, never had an issue. If there's a C-13 in the engine to be upgraded, I just installed the CC-M and called it good.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
It sounds like the age of the TMCC mother board may play a part in whether or not the C-13 will work with the ERR CC-M. This particular installation involved an engine from 1999 with Command Control. The C-13 is definitely a No-Go with this engine. Thanks for the input!
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
Well, an engine from 1999 most certainly did NOT come with a C13 R2LC, that would have had a C08 or earlier version from the factory. The C13 didn't happen until right before TMCC was eclipsed by Legacy, probably round 2005.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

AcelaNYP ·
Newt- Was the replacement R2LC board the same revision (or newer) than the failed board? Were all boards properly seated after swapped?
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
Can you share the exact model? It sounds like you lost the serial connection to the sound boards. If this is the older model with the axle switch, that would match the symptoms.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Chuck Sartor ·
I think the R2LC-04 is the problem. Need to use at least a C08 code. To me it sounds like a motor driver board rather than a radio board.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
Right you are Chuck, I totally glossed over what version he plugged in! I think that mystery is solved. I don't quite understand why the older R2LC would fix the issue if it's the motor driver board. Of course, knowing what the actual product number of this unit is would be really useful...
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Chuck Sartor ·
The reason for the motor driver board is, the poster said the engine would run for a while then stop. To me that doesn't sound like a radio board, but the motor board that overheats and shuts down. To NEWT, does the engine restart after a few minutes then repeats the cycle?
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
True Chuck, but I took his comment about the R2LC fixing the motor drive issue to heart. If replacing the R2LC solves the motor drive issues, than I have to wonder if it's really the motor driver.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Chuck Sartor ·
It certainly could be the radio board, can't rule anything out. But if the problem persists after replacing with the correct radio board, the driver board is where I would go next.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
Well, we certainly agree there Chuck, you're running out of things to replace at that point. The only two logical boards for motor issues are the R2LC and the DCDR (DCDS?)
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

cjack ·
I had a problem with an ERR AC-DC conversion where it would run about a half loop and then quit. I posted the problem in a thread and got an answer from SANTAFEFAN "This is a known problem with the R2LC in its latter stages of production. The driver board is probably fine. For some reason, the AC common through the wheel sets produce a bit more noise on some locos, which affects the R2LC and it resets. The fix is to use an R4LC, with C08 code. Please contact Ken at ElectricRR and he will...
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
Thanks for all the comments so far. His a bit more information as requested. This is an older Command Equipped Lionel GP-9 6-18879. The engine has had several modifications such as a conversion from an AC Pullmor motor to a DC Can motor. The motor driver was replaced with an ERR CC-M. When the engine stalls, I kill the power with emergency triangle button on the Cab 2. I reapply power and she powers right up, so I don't think anything is overheating. I think I may have a C08 or possible a...
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Joe Fermani ·
The CC-M upgrade requires a r2lc-c08 version to work correctly. Its in their documentation. ERR does offer a r4lc-08. Lionel has the r2lc-c08. The ERR version has some additional tweaks for pulmor motors.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
That's the kind of information we could have used before. Have you reprogrammed the engine using AUX-8 as the engine type code? I'd be looking at the CC-M at this point, I've had a couple of those that would heat up and then stop functioning.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

shawn ·
Wow, You guys are confusing the heck out of me. He stated he had a existing command controlled engine. How does, the CC- M fit in with the issue? If , I get this right....some later production r2lc08 had issues. That a r4lc from err railroad will work at a replacement? Funny, thing...having a similar issue with a legacy subway car. Randomly, stops in a couple of feet. Engine responds to norm etc. Engine, will not move again unless unpowered of the reset button is hit on the legacy remote.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. Problem solved. I replaced the R2LC-06 with a R4LC-08 and my sounds were restored. I ran the engine for about 20 minutes last night with no problems/shut down. The weird thing, I've added the ERR CC-M to older K-Line models and never had an issue with sounds or shut down. Maybe they were outfitted with an 08 board from the factory. Thanks again!!!
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

shawn ·
Ok, so, newt. you had upgraded to ERR -CCMin a D.C. Motored geep. The CCM requires the use of a r2lc08 and the othe err boards R4lc from ERR.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

Newt ·
ERR needs to communicate that a little better in their instructions for electrically challenged people like myself. Thanks for the confirmation.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

RoyBoy ·
Huh? Could you clarify that please? CC-M only requires one or the other radio board, not both/two radio boards.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
I think he's saying one or the other. The CC-M wants to see the C08 version of the R2LC or the R4LC.
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

GGG ·
Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

texastrain ·
Great information here, have installed several CCMs, never any problem. However, without checking, do not know off top of my head what version of R2LC or R4LC they have. And, whether they are C08, or not. Along with my listing of what I have in each engine, writing down info for the CCM engines will be added to list. Never ending story, is it not? The information and assistance found here, on the Forum, is as amazing as it is valuable. Jesse TCA
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Re: TMCC R2LC Problem/Question

gunrunnerjohn ·
I've run the CC-M with the C07 version of the R2LC without any apparent issues, but ERR has recommended the C08 version for as long as I can remember. There are some quirks with the C11 version, but the C13 version appears to function fine with them. I don't know what happened to the other versions of the R2LC, but you rarely see them. I know one was for the Lionel Backshop, perhaps there are other special versions in the numbering. The C13 version is the latest version that was made AFAIK.
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Re: R2LC Repair

Marty Fitzhenry ·
Re: R2LC Repair
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Re: R2LC Repair

PaperTRW ·
It's in most manuals, but it did get missed in a few, mainly ones from the late 1990's. Also, I don't think any of the LCRU2-based locomotives ever contained the restore instructions, even though most of the same codes apply. TRW
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Re: R2LC Repair

GGG ·
Rights, so we are taking about the same thing. GRJ post confused me when he stated you should always do AUX1 ## after programing an R2LC. AUX1 and the code is programing/reprogramming. G
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Re: R2LC Repair

GGG ·
Some did. I the Turbine was one.
 
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