An odd issue cropped up here today, and after chasing it down, I thought others might be interested in the solution. I'm installing a Cruise Commander M and the new ERR RailSounds Commander in a diesel. I'm specifically using the CC-M so I can use the ditch light feature, I used a simple motherboard for the R2LC and just custom cabled it. All was going just great until it came time to do the first test! I fired it up, programmed it, and flipped the switch to run. Everything seemed fine,...
My Command Equipped (TMCC) Lionel GP-9 will run for a couple of minutes than come to a complete stop. I suspected dirty track at first, but after a good cleaning the problem remained. I noticed a flicker in the headlight which is a common sign of a weak signal. I doubled the antenna using copper tape and the flicker disappeared, but the problem remained. I then suspected that maybe the R2LC was the problem, I swapped it out with a spare R2LC-04 and guess what, problem solved. But now another...
I couldn't find the reference to the ERR solution, since it was an independent invention, it's my solution. I thought that ERR only had issues with the wireless tether, I didn't realize they had issues with an all wired solution.
Sure you have it, you gave me a an old copy of the diagram. Boxcar Bill had posted at one point. They do have issues with some board sets not working with newer 5.0 sound sets. Mini CDR EX is one. Would drive 4.0, but not the new ones now. CC-M also. So the "solution" which amplifies Serial Data is certainly going to fix any of these issues I think. G
I was looking just today at the Cruise M for use in a project. Just out of curiosity, did you originally connect the Railsounds Commander and the Cruise M in parallel, so they both feed from the R2LC, or did you use the Serial Data Out on the Cruise M (pin 2 on J4) to feed the Railsounds Commander?
First I connected them in parallel, then I tried the serial-out on the CC-M, didn't work. That's when I broke out the 'scope to see why. I didn't check the serial-out with the 'scope, but wired directly to the RS Commander, it acted like it wasn't there. The CC-M worked fine, so it was getting serial data. I think the new CC-M that's the "universal" one has no problem with the parallel connection, this was the earlier version. I had several that were still in the wrap from several years ago.
John, This was the fix for the IR tethered version. You sure you had the correct CC-M. The new ones have the attenuated signal. This is not suppose to happen on a diesel. I have not seen this issue occur on diesels. Maybe a bad ERR RS Cdr? G
George, you did see that I said these were the previous version of the CC-M, right? This also happens on the TMCC back-EMF driver from Lionel parts, I tried that one as well, same problem. Like I said, I have used the new "universal" ones without issue in the same configuration. I am curious what is different about the serial data output, I'll have to look at that some day. I figured that would solve the problem, but the RS Commander acted like the serial data wasn't there when I connected that.
Interesting, I have a repair in form Len B on this here forum that is showing an intermittent issue that is exactly these symptoms. I have yet to be able to replicate the issue after several running sessions
Yep, I used pin 20 for the 5V power and pin 24 for the serial data. The output of the buffer feeds the RS Commander. With that installed, everything works fine, and the serial data has an additional volt + of amplitude, obviously the RS Commander imposes more of a load than I'd expect for a new product. I'm guessing it's feeding an opto-isolator as the rest of the circuit's DC ground is NOT common with the frame ground like TMCC.
Of course they are Marty. What I said was the new RS Commander doesn't have DC common and frame ground connected. The RS Commander has a full wave rectifier directly after the track power comes in, so any attempt to ground any pin but the incoming power pin will allow the magic smoke to escape. That is different than the R2LC that uses a half-wave rectifier and has it's DC signal common the same as frame ground (wheels)
No I did not see a call out on version, but since this is diesel I would not have thought it would matter except the new RS from ERR seem to need a stronger signal. I think this is an issue with the Sound CDR requiring a stronger signal, and I think that is what they must have modified on the new CC-M. Even the older board for dummies no longer supports Rail Sounds with the newer sound board. G
I suspect my little emitter follower may be more useful than I imagined. Now that I see how easy it it to whack one together, that will no longer be an issue. Of course, for the dummy locomotive board would have the issue of finding a source of 5V to power the circuit. It's clearly the sound board that is stepping on the signal, it drops the amplitude of the serial data from a bit over 4V p-p to around 3v p-p.
I decided to do some additional testing with some spare Radio Boards I have. Here's what I found: the R2LC-08 and the R4LC-08 performed perfectly with the ERR CC-M motor driver, no issues with sound or stalling. I then installed a R2LC-C13 board thinking I would get the same results...wrong. The R2LC-C13 performed well with the sounds, but soon stalled/reset after a few minutes of running. I went through the proper reprogramming for each board. My advice is to stick with the 08 boards. Hope...
Do you know that the C13 works properly with other boards? R2LC are getting long in the tooth, and they degrade over time with the receiver chip. Poor TMCC reception seems to cause cruise issues too. G
It sounds like the age of the TMCC mother board may play a part in whether or not the C-13 will work with the ERR CC-M. This particular installation involved an engine from 1999 with Command Control. The C-13 is definitely a No-Go with this engine. Thanks for the input!
Well, an engine from 1999 most certainly did NOT come with a C13 R2LC, that would have had a C08 or earlier version from the factory. The C13 didn't happen until right before TMCC was eclipsed by Legacy, probably round 2005.
Right you are Chuck, I totally glossed over what version he plugged in! I think that mystery is solved. I don't quite understand why the older R2LC would fix the issue if it's the motor driver board. Of course, knowing what the actual product number of this unit is would be really useful...
The reason for the motor driver board is, the poster said the engine would run for a while then stop. To me that doesn't sound like a radio board, but the motor board that overheats and shuts down. To NEWT, does the engine restart after a few minutes then repeats the cycle?
I had a problem with an ERR AC-DC conversion where it would run about a half loop and then quit. I posted the problem in a thread and got an answer from SANTAFEFAN "This is a known problem with the R2LC in its latter stages of production. The driver board is probably fine. For some reason, the AC common through the wheel sets produce a bit more noise on some locos, which affects the R2LC and it resets. The fix is to use an R4LC, with C08 code. Please contact Ken at ElectricRR and he will...
Thanks for all the comments so far. His a bit more information as requested. This is an older Command Equipped Lionel GP-9 6-18879. The engine has had several modifications such as a conversion from an AC Pullmor motor to a DC Can motor. The motor driver was replaced with an ERR CC-M. When the engine stalls, I kill the power with emergency triangle button on the Cab 2. I reapply power and she powers right up, so I don't think anything is overheating. I think I may have a C08 or possible a...
The CC-M upgrade requires a r2lc-c08 version to work correctly. Its in their documentation. ERR does offer a r4lc-08. Lionel has the r2lc-c08. The ERR version has some additional tweaks for pulmor motors.
That's the kind of information we could have used before. Have you reprogrammed the engine using AUX-8 as the engine type code? I'd be looking at the CC-M at this point, I've had a couple of those that would heat up and then stop functioning.
Wow, You guys are confusing the heck out of me. He stated he had a existing command controlled engine. How does, the CC- M fit in with the issue? If , I get this right....some later production r2lc08 had issues. That a r4lc from err railroad will work at a replacement? Funny, thing...having a similar issue with a legacy subway car. Randomly, stops in a couple of feet. Engine responds to norm etc. Engine, will not move again unless unpowered of the reset button is hit on the legacy remote.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. Problem solved. I replaced the R2LC-06 with a R4LC-08 and my sounds were restored. I ran the engine for about 20 minutes last night with no problems/shut down. The weird thing, I've added the ERR CC-M to older K-Line models and never had an issue with sounds or shut down. Maybe they were outfitted with an 08 board from the factory. Thanks again!!!
Great information here, have installed several CCMs, never any problem. However, without checking, do not know off top of my head what version of R2LC or R4LC they have. And, whether they are C08, or not. Along with my listing of what I have in each engine, writing down info for the CCM engines will be added to list. Never ending story, is it not? The information and assistance found here, on the Forum, is as amazing as it is valuable. Jesse TCA
I've run the CC-M with the C07 version of the R2LC without any apparent issues, but ERR has recommended the C08 version for as long as I can remember. There are some quirks with the C11 version, but the C13 version appears to function fine with them. I don't know what happened to the other versions of the R2LC, but you rarely see them. I know one was for the Lionel Backshop, perhaps there are other special versions in the numbering. The C13 version is the latest version that was made AFAIK.
It's in most manuals, but it did get missed in a few, mainly ones from the late 1990's. Also, I don't think any of the LCRU2-based locomotives ever contained the restore instructions, even though most of the same codes apply. TRW
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