022 switch problem

GG-1,

I have 25 of these on my table layout.  It seems that something is shorting the switch circuit.  First, I would check the insulating pins.

Next, I would remove the switch and open the motor box.  You never know what's in there.  It's not hard, just a couple of screws.  Check for any metal debris, or broken wires.  It's also easy to disassemble the switch itself and put it back together after cleaning.

If you find nothing wrong, I would set it up with a test track.  Power it with the voltage plug, make sure you're insulating pins are correctly positioned.  Roll a car through the switch in all directions.  This should give you an idea of where the problem is coming from. 

If none of this works, you may have a short somewhere in your lines leading to or away from the switch.

Jerry 

GG-1 Fan,

   I know you guys get attached to the old 022 switches, however they are inexpensive at most every train show.  Pick up one in perfect shape, remove the 0ld 022 switch you have from your layout and replace it.  If that particular Switch has great meaning to you for family reasons, completely over haul it, and then reinstall it into the layout.  IMO do not waste your time on the old 022 switches, millions of them were made and still available at very reasonable prices.

I have more than a few myself.

PCRR/Dave

Great responses, which I wholeheartedly agree with. 

Getting another switch is the easy solution but doesn't really address the situation, especially if there is another short somewhere that is causing the intermittent failure.  I am thinking of replacing all my tubular track with Gargraves track and compatible switches.  Even my old engines seem to go into the shop for repairs twice a year which is prompting me to go with more modern (but not digital) conventional engines just so I don't have to run around dealing with derailments while guests view my layout.  After all, who needs the frustration?

GG-1 Fan,

  Your post heading was about the 022 Switches, if you have a major Track problem some place with Conventional Tubular, most times I would look at the wiring 1st, especially the lock ons.

PCRR/Dave

OK.  I did some tinkering around with the voltage lever on my ZW that controls the constant voltage for the switches.  I have found that when the voltage is boosted nearly to the max, there is no oscillation of the switch mechanism as the engine enters the switch.  If the voltage is dropped down, the problem reoccurs.  Is that a problem with the transformer (that the voltage lever has to be up that high) or the connections?

GG-1,

   It's probably not your Transformer, the old worn switch is probably the problem, pick up another 022 in better shape.  If all your other 022 switches are function at the original voltage, it's definitely the 022 switch.

PCRR/Dave

If the problem is with the switch itself and not the track, you should read all the postings at this LINK.  Once you perform all or most of those operations you will have an O22 switch that is better than new.  I continue to be amazed at the ruggedness and reliability of that design.

If the problem is with the track I would be checking for damaged third rail insulators.

Pete

Texas Pete posted:

If the problem is with the switch itself and not the track, you should read all the postings at this LINK.  Once you perform all or most of those operations you will have an O22 switch that is better than new.  I continue to be amazed at the ruggedness and reliability of that design.

If the problem is with the track I would be checking for damaged third rail insulators.

Pete

I totally agree with Pete. Although I did not repair my used 022 switches myself, I hired a very good repairman to fix them for a modest fee and they now have worked great for over 10 years! 

I think the 022 switches for O Gauge are much better than the 1122 switches for 027 Gauge.

Gentlemen,

   Texas Pete makes a darn good point here, the old 022 and 711 Tin Plate switches were made super high grade, it is amazing how most of them have lasted thru the generations.

The only negative fall back to them, is their massive power drain when operated.  Using the LED's in both the switch and controllers helps, however one must remember they will never be low voltage switches.  Mechanically however they are almost bullet proof, if some company would make a new modern low voltage exact copy of these old Lionel switches, that ran via remote control, like the FTCC Switch do, they would be great for our old Tin Plate Trains.  K-Line's original low voltage Super Snap Switches were as close to this Engineering as any O Gauge Switch has ever come, minus the remote control of course.

I transitioned in and out of them on my FasTrack layouts for years until Lionel developed the FTCC Switches.  Mechanically however IMO the Lionel 022's and 711/072 switches are still top dog, especially for Tin Plate Trains.

PCRR/Dave

Is there a supplier for LED bulbs to fit O22 switches ?  I have both the screw base and bayonet base sockets in the switches I own.  

Dan,

   Town and Country Hobbies has them all.  I use them in all my different 022's, 711's and 072 switches and in some rolling stock also.  Look under Lionel Replacement LED's

PCRR/Dave

Thanks Dave !

Dan Padova posted:

Thanks Dave !

Dan, you may know what I am about to say. If you stick with normal O22 bulbs, make sure you use 18 volt bulbs and set the fixed independent voltage at 14 to 16 volts. That way, you won't melt the plastic lanterns/lenses ("lanterns").

It took me 20 years to learn the above.  I used to use 14 volts bulbs and set the fixed voltage at 20 plus volts.  I melted a lot of lanterns. LOL

Even if you set the fixed voltage at 14 volts, you will still melt the lanterns if you use 14 volt bulbs.

LEDs may be great, but I have never used them for my 022 switches 

Dan Padova posted:

Is there a supplier for LED bulbs to fit O22 switches ?  I have both the screw base and bayonet base sockets in the switches I own.  

eastcoasttrainparts.com    Phone # 732-845-5966   Good supplier

GG-1fan posted:

This one particular switch has some type of electrical problem that causes it to reverse from its intended route for any engine that I use, causing a derailment.  As soon as the engine enters the switch that is routed to the curve portion, it derails when the switch automatically goes back to the straight route.  This had happened in the past, and I disconnected the constant voltage plug and just stopped the train to use track voltage and then restarted the train.  Afterwards, I reconnected the constant voltage plug, and for several months there was no problem until today when it reverted back to the same phenomenon.  Of course, I can change the switch; but my question goes to the cause of this problem, especially if it is remedial and I can save the switch.  Thanks.

Remove the bottom of the switch... Sometimes one of the solder joints is broken...

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Thanks Dave !

Dan, you may know what I am about to say. If you stick with normal O22 bulbs, make sure you use 18 volt bulbs and set the fixed independent voltage at 14 to 16 volts. That way, you won't melt the plastic lanterns/lenses ("lanterns").

It took me 20 years to learn the above.  I used to use 14 volts bulbs and set the fixed voltage at 20 plus volts.  I melted a lot of lanterns. LOL

Even if you set the fixed voltage at 14 volts, you will still melt the lanterns if you use 14 volt bulbs.

LEDs may be great, but I have never used them for my 022 switches 

I used to drill a small, 1/8" diameter, hole in the top of O22 lanterns.  Now that I am starting up again, I will do the same, unless I decide to buy the LED bulbs.

Dan Padova posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Thanks Dave !

Dan, you may know what I am about to say. If you stick with normal O22 bulbs, make sure you use 18 volt bulbs and set the fixed independent voltage at 14 to 16 volts. That way, you won't melt the plastic lanterns/lenses ("lanterns").

It took me 20 years to learn the above.  I used to use 14 volts bulbs and set the fixed voltage at 20 plus volts.  I melted a lot of lanterns. LOL

Even if you set the fixed voltage at 14 volts, you will still melt the lanterns if you use 14 volt bulbs.

LEDs may be great, but I have never used them for my 022 switches 

I used to drill a small, 1/8" diameter, hole in the top of O22 lanterns.  Now that I am starting up again, I will do the same, unless I decide to buy the LED bulbs.

The repro 022 lanterns have a little hole on top.

Gentlemen,

   For best results, put a hole in the top of the old lantern covers at the top, and then use  the LED Replacements.

PCRR/Dave