The sudden start, sudden stop issue, IMO, is fixable. While a flywheel would help the stopping, (coasting?), it doesn’t fix the sudden start. Could this overall issue be fixed with capacitors? ( the more electronic literate should correct me if I’m wrong). The momentum switch on some older HO transformers come to mind.
Steve
The jackrabbit start can be somewhat overcome by backing the transformer power down. It does not need 18V. Take a look.
Steve
What's the deal on the number boards? Is that a red LED?
@johnstrains looks orange close-up but yeah. definitely not white.
I played with the jackrabbit starts. Turning the transformer down to 13v (where some command equipment will not run), the jolt of starting/stopping becomes acceptable.
Also at 13v on the transformer, the engine will just make it up a 4% grade with cars in tow. Note the throttle level in the video of the train climbing a 4% grade; turning the throttle up any higher does not result in a faster up-hill ascent speed. Also note at the speed increase of the train at the end of the videos the weight of the train crests the rise (the front end of the train at the top is on flat track at this point). To be expected.
ps. not bashing Menards. My email to them began with "THANK YOU" and this is a really nice starter engine. The price is phenomenal. Would I buy another engine from them? DEFINITELY YES. I really don't care how they label the engine. The only 2 tweaks I'd suggest is the too-brief horn (only 1 sec long on mine and no way to lengthen the horn blow) and adjusting the start speed so it doesn't jump into motion at 18v. I did not have any issues with the remote control at all. I suggested they include a link to a web page for a brief "how to setup and operate your engine" for people who are brand new to the hobby.
Attachments
Images (1)
Videos (2)
Thanks for the follow up Scott V!
What is wrong with some of these people? Pick pick pick. It's a starter set engine, I give Menards an A+ for offering it.
Considering the simplicity of the electronics and the all or nothing speed control, could Menards possibly bought the controller from one of the inexpensive r/c car manufacturers like say New Bright? Those cars don't run with 18 volts, more in the line of 6-12 volts.
If that's the case, the addition of a battery pack and a DPDT switch and you have a dead rail locomotive. Track or battery power.
Scott V. That Consist is definitely "Santa Fe All The Way"
@Jim 1939 posted:What is wrong with some of these people? Pick pick pick. It's a starter set engine, I give Menards an A+ for offering it.
I'm with you, Jim! This is a first effort from Menards in terms of motive power, and they deserve a whole lot of credit for even dipping their toes into this pond. Folks need to chill a bit and let them work on things after this beta test. Lots of good/useful feedback provided by you forum members in this long thread, and I'm confident the Menard's product development people will welcome that input.
@Allan Miller posted:I'm with you, Jim! This is a first effort from Menards in terms of motive power, and they deserve a whole lot of credit for even dipping their toes into this pond. Folks need to chill a bit and let them work on things after this beta test. Lots of good/useful feedback provided by you forum members in this long thread, and I'm confident the Menard's product development people will welcome that input.
I'm still staggering under the load of absorbing the fact that Menard's actually did jump into motive power, I truthfully never thought it would happen. 
The engine appears to have a pair of Mabuchi RS385s found in the majority of O scale engines from Railkings to Legacy. They should easily handle the loads so far pictured easily. Hopefully the next run uses flywheel equipped versions and the jump starts are addressed. Too bad there isn’t a Menards near me. I would have picked one up at the introductory price just to play with it but at close to an additional 50 bucks to get it me it was hard to justify, maybe if was a NYC lightning stripe.
Pete
I was fortunate enough to receive one of the engines, and was so disappointed last evening to get it home and the remote would not function. However, thanks so much for the tip on bending the positive connectors on the remote's battery compartment and it works! I actually have found that by placing the remote to full forward, I can hook this to two postwar Lionel Santa Fe engines with their e units locked in forward and they work together well conventionally! Another tip mentioned hitting the horn button several times fast produces a long horn sound. Its a winner!
@Ron_S I let it run for an hour on its own traveling up and down the 18ft of 4% grade... the shell was mildly warm to the touch near the motor.
some "night-time" run fun.
oh, and the HOA needs to issue letters to the community to remove those holiday lights 
.. (I forgot to turn those off and just leave the interior lights on).
Attachments
Videos (1)
@Norton posted:The engine appears to have a pair of Mabuchi RS385s found in the majority of O scale engines from Railkings to Legacy. They should easily handle the loads so far pictured easily. Hopefully the next run uses flywheel equipped versions and the jump starts are addressed. Too bad there isn’t a Menards near me. I would have picked one up at the introductory price just to play with it but at close to an additional 50 bucks to get it me it was hard to justify, maybe if was a NYC lightning stripe.
Pete
These were not on the shelf in stores, online only.
No doubt in my mind that Menards will be releasing more very affordable great operating engines in the future. The bugs will be corrected. It’s obvious the Ogauge market needs low costs products that one can purchase without damaging their household budget. I personally don’t own any Menards products but sure am happy to see them offer low cost terrific products that help everybody have fun with this great hobby.
I have been controlling my O gauge 2 rail and 3 rail with Variacs for years. These are the 0-120 volt Variacs connected to a transformer which is 0-24 volts with one set of leads to a rectifier for DC and the other leads to three rail track. I added a line fuse to both sets of leads and a to the DPDT DC leads. This may sound cumberson but due to the much higher wrapping of windings on the Variac Rheostat you can run your scale and 3-rail locomotives at much lower speeds. Even my post-war 2025 creeps along pull a long consist of Kusan cars!
@Tom Platten posted:I have been controlling my O gauge 2 rail and 3 rail with Variacs for years. These are the 0-120 volt Variacs connected to a transformer which is 0-24 volts with one set of leads to a rectifier for DC and the other leads to three rail track. I added a line fuse to both sets of leads and a to the DPDT DC leads. This may sound cumberson but due to the much higher wrapping of windings on the Variac Rheostat you can run your scale and 3-rail locomotives at much lower speeds. Even my post-war 2025 creeps along pull a long consist of Kusan cars!
This sounds very interesting Tom, I would like to see your setup running.
In the early days of model railroading many used variacs for train control, even some passenger car batteries were used.
In the old days some communities had DC, some had AC so a model rail had to use his ingenuity to get things running!
@wild mary posted:Could one of our BETA testers confirm whether or not the loco can be run conventional from the transformer by setting the remote yo MAX? Thanks guys.
As I mentioned earlier, that's how I run mine. It's the only way the loco will start and stop gracefully.
My TPC system goes down to zero, or almost.
A couple of points based on recent responses.
Yes, by turning the input voltage down, the locomotive runs much slower, which helps the abruptness somewhat what. Mine ran at less than 8 volts. But it still cuts out suddenly, unlike any other locomotive I have. That’s correctable, and I’m certain Menards will consider it.
Concerning conventional operations, when people ask if this runs conventionally, they mean can you operate it without a remote. Remotes can get lost, broken and burdensome. This current design makes the locomotive dependent on the remote. That’s not ideal. But I’m not sure how much a remote/conventional switch would add to the cost. Menards may address that issue, but if the goal is to keep this priced at less than $150, it might not be deemed doable.
Thanks Steve. That's exactly what I needed to know.
Well it arrived last night and this morning I put her thru the paces. I love this engine! Seeing it pull all my Menard's Santa Fe freight (with caboose) warmed my heart. I love that I don't need a wallwart.
I did have the remote battery chamber issue as others have mentioned. Also the horn is truly anemic. My son though the sound file sounded like it was recorded backwards. I also had a small scuff on the top of the cab. I feel I got more than my money's worth. Now just want to see a dummy unit, and some other roadnames.
I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
Attachments
Images (2)
@Jim 1939 posted:What is wrong with some of these people? Pick pick pick. It's a starter set engine, I give Menards an A+ for offering it.
Well, they are asking for comments. Some people bring their negativity to task, but most don’t.
So far, in my mind , reasonable comments include stop/start velocity, horn, and number board lighting.
Other comments tend to miss the point that this is a starter engine.
All around, a great step forward from Menards.
However, and without critical comment, I find the backup light through the back door funny.
Alan
@Steve "Papa" Eastman, Nice Job with that paint! It looks fantastic!
@ajzend, I don't believe Menards ever stated this was a "starter engine", but something inferred based on the apparent price point target. To shutdown feedback on features that are considered missing or desired is not necessary. Let Menards classify and sort through the all feedback and make of it what they will.
After a couple of hours of run time, mine just lost the prime mover sounds. The bell, horn, and talk all still work, just no engine sounds....
Found the problem, somewhere during going up/down the hills and testing going thru 042 and 031 switches the sounds switched moved from on to off. This happened while the train was running mind you. Since its not marked either way it took a while to realize that is what happened.
Apparently the switch only turns off the prime mover sounds, everything else still sounds off loud and clear!
Some of the posted internal pictures are very well done and quite useful. The controller appears to be crystal controlled which most likely puts the wireless control frequency in either the VHF or UHF band, but it could be higher. This is quite similar to many of the R/C toy cars. The antennas on both the controller transmitter board and the loco mounted receiver board are printed on the PCB's. Conversion to battery power would not be a major issue with this loco and would probably function well. Overall, an interesting product introduction.
@bmoran4 posted:@Steve "Papa" Eastman, Nice Job with that paint! It looks fantastic!
@ajzend, I don't believe Menards ever stated this was a "starter engine", but something inferred based on the apparent price point target. To shutdown feedback on features that are considered missing or desired is not necessary. Let Menards classify and sort through the all feedback and make of it what they will.
Maybe I’m being misunderstood, but I’m not calling for any shut down of comments.
Alan
I think Menards needs to ask for them back after about 4 weeks. They should provide a prepaid shipping label and a feedback form that will need to be completed. I feel it would be important for them to examine the used items to evaluate the actual products that have had components fail. Of course they would refund the price or provide a replacement when the bugs and kinks are worked out.
Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
@Former Member posted:Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
Did you read the original post by Mark? He didn’t throw this away as a beta test with no direction. But he did ask for blunt critical reviews of the product sent to the guest email box. Doesn’t sound like someone that’s trying to “save face.” It does sound like a company that’s planning on modifications based on feedback.
@Former Member posted:Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
My guess is that they thought were “finished” with them when they showed up from the factory. Then, some of the people tried running them and realized that there were issues that needed addressed. So they made a decision to circulate the product at low margin to cover their costs and solicit feedback from experienced users. Finished cost of goods is usually no more than 30% of retail. Using that math, these cost about $45-50 to produce in a full run of say 5,000 units. Fewer total units means a higher cost per unit so, these could have cost as much as $75 to produce in limited numbers.
A typical Lionel Lionel FT LionChief diesel has about a cost of goods around the same $45-60 range. Cost of goods is how much A manufacturer pays for the finished product complete with packaging and literature, and in some cases research & development costs for new items. The dealers pay more and the consumer pays the most. These are guesstimates based on my personal experience in the sector manufacturing.
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best! Great idea.
I don't have one. I've read this topic all the way through. I have some opinions Menards may be interested in or not, since I don't have one, but would be interested.
1. Loose the crew talk.
2. Add flywheels.
3. Don't call it an F3.
4. Improve low speed operation.
5. Either shiny chrome it or don't. Don't do the trucks, but not the shell.
6. Light the number boards differently or don't light them at all. Skip the red light.
7. Improve the remote, or leave it conventional operation.
8. Do the above "fixes", and price at $200.00. It would be a bargain at that price and most of the "problems" would be corrected.
I would like the thank Menards for entering the O-gauge market. I was pretty unimpressed when the first buildings came out that were copies of a cottage industry manufacturer, but since then, Menards has really focused on the starter or affordable side of the hobby, which I do appreciate.
Hi Mark From Menards
Every one beat me to ordering this engine ! Great Looking Engine !
Please Set up the following paint Schemes: Milwaukee Road, Chicago & Northwestern, Rock island, NYC , PRR, Western Pacific, & many more !
I will be waiting !
Thanks
Bill in Wauwatosa
Ps Maybe do a CHRISTMAS paint scheme as well !
Also maybe a Halloween paint scheme for Jim R !
M:
How about getting, if you can, the Williams molds and jump start the line that way?
I picked up my engine from Menards this morning. Following are some of my observations:
1. To eliminate most of the stop/start jerk, I set the remote to the F in Forward. No need to turn it to full speed. I then turn the transformer on slowly for a fairly smooth start. I only give it 5 volts, all it needs. I can then rotate the remote or transformer handle up for enough speed to send it flying. Great motors inside!
2. My remote had no issues. I also had the scuff marks on top.
3. The orange marker board lights give a really neat glow from the headlight in the dark. In operation, the headlight is bright and really lights up the track.
4. The multiple push on the horn button works fine for me. I'm sere Menards will modify this function.
5. After running awhile, I realized that I didn't have the prime mover sounds. Volume control was full up. Got the first two screws out of the shell and noticed the sound On/off switch on the bottom. It should really be marked as to which is on. Sound works great now. Prime mover sounds ramp up nicely, but needs a little more base. If you take the shell off, watch the marker board bulbs. They can be easily bent out of position.
6. Crew/tower talk is loud and clear, more so than many high-end engines. Also quite a variety.
7. The couplers are of very good quality.
8. Pulled 25 cars with ease and could have handled more. A strong runner!
Bottom line, Menards has a great thing going that can only benefit the model train hobby. I'm sure they will get the bugs worked out before full production begins. I know that based on this trial run, I wouldn't hesitate to buy more of their future engines. Great job, Menards!
Ron
Outstanding offering from Menards. As one of the other members posted - I see this as a great engine to let the grandkids call their own and have fun pulling their own consist (mostly flat and crane cars with very creative loads). The ability to put together a set for around $325 (engine and five cars - no track/transformer) is a real winner.
Nicely done Menards.
Paul
