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As much as we might protest that sellers are gouging, the real problem is the buyer or speculative buyer.  Let’s face it, we see many posts where people bought stuff they just wanted, acknowledging that they probably paid too much.  And in the wider world we see plenty of speculators.  Only time and timing will reveal if value is achieved.

Last edited by jjm
@Diok S posted:

The one on the Internet is now up to $360!!!!!!!  Incredible.

On the whole, I have no problem with someone putting an item such as this on eBay, though I admit I do get tired of people who buy a limited release item for the sole purpose of immediately flipping it for a high price.

However, I have learned to mistrust eBay auctions set up as private listings only, as in this instance. I have seen prices jump unrealistically on too many of those auctions compared to typical eBay auctions.

Under private listing auctions, you can’t click on the IDs of the other bidders to see how often they have bid with a particular seller. And, because not an even an encrypted ID is visible for each bidder, you can’t tell who is driving up the price through small incremental bids. So there’s no way to see if shill bidding is at play.

I refuse to raise my initial bid after realizing the auction format.

This action had 15 bids with only four bidders ending at $405.

568E5B8F-B557-4C11-8635-74669369A666

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Last edited by Jim R.
@PRRMP54 posted:

No, but they do control the initial bid amount.

And nobody is being forced to pay that price. If someone wants it that bad, they can pony up the cash.

Menards will make more engines and prices will go back to a reasonable amount. Be patient.

I should hire WhistlingDiesel to smash some brand new Vision Line locomotives on YouTube and really watch people cry and complain about what somebody does with things they own.

Last edited by H1000

What I honestly don't understand is why some people are so upset by an individual opting to sell the beta engine.   It's their prerogative to participate in the testing of the engine or to sell it or just hang onto it. 

They paid for the engine with their own money and thus can do what they please.

In defense of their position, the spirit of the offering by Menards was to get as many of the 200 buyers to evaluate the engine by putting it through its paces and reporting back their findings along with any suggestions they may have. 

So I get the issue of the spirit being broken, but this is still America where there is a free market place.  Thus lets not name call individuals or call them un-American.   

Because in reality only those who are name calling aren't fully embracing the American spirit of free enterprise.

The buyers of that engine for $405 either know something we don't or have way too much money to spend.  I'm leaning on the later point!

So now the preverbal question is, what will a slightly used engine get on the bay?

Any guesses?

Paying that much for an entry level engine is silly.  The bidders and eventual buyer is just speculating that because it’s rare, it may be worth something someday.

Let’s not forget we watched a Lionel Western Pacific 6464 boxcar go for $75,000 on Stout Auctions just like a year ago.  People are free to spend their money how they want, and I’m free to think it’s foolish.

Or, it could be a business competitor that wants to examine it for some reason.

Did you buy the Honda with the intent of selling it or trading it in for a higher price? I suspect you didn’t.
Steve

This is meaningless, I have 3 families in my little neighborhood that flip cars for a living. People do this all the time! Cars, houses, dolls, trains, baseball cards, you name it, somebody out there does it for profit. It's the American way!

@Darrell posted:

This is meaningless, I have 3 families in my little neighborhood that flip cars for a living. People do this all the time! Cars, houses, dolls, trains, baseball cards, you name it, somebody out there does it for profit. It's the American way!

The Hot Wheels guys are just as bad or worse.  I, as a kid, was a Hot Wheels tester. So needless to say I collect them.....and have thousands. But in the past 5 ears it has become a profession to some guys. They even have software to track shipments of HW to stores.....then show up at opening, grab all the cars that are bringing big money and put them online within 15 minutes.  It is now SOP with the HW hobby. I now buy what I can find for 99 cents and if I do not get that rare car....who cares.

As for the Menard's Santa Fe loco, I'd love to have gotten one. And if someone wants to get big bucks.....fine...I will not participate.  If NO ONE bought into this 'gotta have it at any price' gig....it would not happen. Takes two to make it happen.

It seems somewhat obvious that, after this 'Beta test' version has been through the wringer and Menards has adjusted the product accordingly, the Santa Fe version will be among the first volume releases.   It probably won't matter to the folks willing to pay wallet-dumping prices for one of these first 200, but it should temper the mania.  And, if the hobby's 70-year track record with Warbonnet F's is any indication, it will probably be run again, and again, and again, ...'ad ubiquitum'.

So, I say, let 'em light their cigar with a couple $100 bills to capture a Beta.   I'll wait patiently for the 'Gamma to Omega' versions.

Anyone else remember when Ambroid released their first "1 of 5000" kit?  Wonder how many trips to Tahiti were funded by resale of those other 4,999? (Dad built one...a Christmas gift back then in the Basswood Age...I still have it...he did a beautiful job on it!)

The consumer is still king.  Sometimes nutty, but still 'king'.

TEHO.

KD

Last edited by dkdkrd

I hate to take things so far off topic on this tangent:

A divorced couple who couldn't agree on how to split up their Beanie Baby collection were ordered by a judge Friday to divide up the babies one by one in a courtroom. ... According to the divorce decree, the parties were supposed to divide their Beanie Baby collection, estimated to be worth between $2,500 and $5,000.Nov 6, 1999

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...7d12e4b060480e0661fe

It's a little disingenuous to simply say it's America and we have free enterprise and you can do anything you want to once you own something. We all understand that, but that's missing the point. Just because you have the right to do something does not automatically mean that you should do something. Let's not confuse rights with doing the right thing.

The product was offered to Forum members for the specific purpose of beta testing and certain people have violated that intention. That's quite different from selling a limited edition item of something that someone is lucky enough to obtain and wants to flip.

If your grandfather left you his pocket watch that had been handed down since the civil war with the intention that you enjoy it and then pass it on to your descendants, could you just flip it on the internet to make a quick profit - sure, you have the right to do that, but should you ?

Part of the problem with our society is that we have lost our moral compass in search of the almighty dollar - for shame.   

@Richie C. posted:

It's a little disingenuous to simply say it's America and we have free enterprise and you can do anything you want to once you own something. We all understand that, but that's missing the point. Just because you have the right to do something does not automatically mean that you should do something. Let's not confuse rights with doing the right thing.

The product was offered to Forum members for the specific purpose of beta testing and certain people have violated that intention. That's quite different from selling a limited edition item of something that someone is lucky enough to obtain and wants to flip.

If your grandfather left you his pocket watch that had been handed down since the civil war with the intention that you enjoy it and then pass it on to your descendants, could you just flip it on the internet to make a quick profit - sure, you have the right to do that, but should you ?

Part of the problem with our society is that we have lost our moral compass in search of the almighty dollar - for shame.   

I could see your point if contractual limitations accompanied the agreement to purchase the product, but as best I can tell that is not the case.  You are free to use it or transfer it as you like.  And if you put an outrageous price on it, it's meaningless - until someone agrees to pay it.  In that case, you have a willing buyer and a willing seller.  Nothing illegal or immoral.  No one forced anyone else to enter the transaction.

Edit: I think you might be conflating price gouging in a scenario with a product that is necessary to life, such as medication for example.  In a case like this, there is nothing life threatening or "needed" to survive with a toy train.

Last edited by jjm
@Richie C. posted:

Let's not confuse rights with doing the right thing.

The product was offered to Forum members for the specific purpose of beta testing and certain people have violated that intention.

If your grandfather left you his pocket watch that had been handed down since the civil war with the intention that you enjoy it and then pass it on to your descendants,

Wow! You guys are all over the place over this dumb thing. Suddenly there’s generations of sentimentality over this low quality, entry level toy train that 200 people bought???? It’s a family heirloom from Menards! This wasn’t a true beta test. Menards SOLD this. It wasn’t “offered” to only the forum. It wasn’t given. “In the spirit of.....” Some people have lost their minds over this. People paid money for it. Some of those people paid money and were left with a dud. You get that Menards made money on this, right? Menards gets free product feedback AND they made money off the product to get it! It wasn’t a special gift that your great grandfather hand made..... These posts are so ridiculous!

@Richie C. posted:

It's a little disingenuous to simply say it's America and we have free enterprise and you can do anything you want to once you own something. We all understand that, but that's missing the point. Just because you have the right to do something does not automatically mean that you should do something. Let's not confuse rights with doing the right thing.

The product was offered to Forum members for the specific purpose of beta testing and certain people have violated that intention. That's quite different from selling a limited edition item of something that someone is lucky enough to obtain and wants to flip.

If your grandfather left you his pocket watch that had been handed down since the civil war with the intention that you enjoy it and then pass it on to your descendants, could you just flip it on the internet to make a quick profit - sure, you have the right to do that, but should you ?

Part of the problem with our society is that we have lost our moral compass in search of the almighty dollar - for shame.   

Unfortunately, family heirlooms are constantly being sold off, thrown or given away.  Antique shops are loaded with items of this nature.  But that is how society is, some folks care about such things and others do not.  Its those who don't that create a business in which many make a living at.

The intent of Menards was a noble one and should be applauded.  Unfortunately some saw it as an opportunity to earn a few extra dollars.  To each their own.   

That's why we live in this great country, because as American's can do as we like even if it may not necessarily align with others morals and values - as long as it is within the bounds of the law.

If the prices on eBay are too expensive just wait till Menards makes another run. Pretty simple. I see stuff al the time that I want, but not at the price I want to pay. In that case I just wait till one shows up at my price point. Just wait. Menards will make more. Seems like an easy solution. You don't need a Menards F unit to live.....

@Allegheny posted:

Unfortunately, family heirlooms are constantly being sold off, thrown or given away.  Antique shops are loaded with items of this nature.  But that is how society is, some folks care about such things and others do not.  Its those who don't that create a business in which many make a living at.

The intent of Menards was a noble one and should be applauded.  Unfortunately some saw it as an opportunity to earn a few extra dollars.  To each their own.   

That's why we live in this great country, because as American's can do as we like even if it may not necessarily align with others morals and values - as long as it is within the bounds of the law.

Being a little picky.  Not sure if Menards motivation is entirely noble, but I do think it has a desire to serve the hobby, though not to the point of giving away products at a loss!  It did a brilliant job of creating buzz here and getting beta testers to pay for the privilege.  Nothing wrong with that, but not entirely noble.

@Sam Jumper posted:

Wow! You guys are all over the place over this dumb thing. Suddenly there’s generations of sentimentality over this low quality, entry level toy train that 200 people bought???? It’s a family heirloom from Menards! This wasn’t a true beta test. Menards SOLD this. It wasn’t “offered” to only the forum. It wasn’t given. “In the spirit of.....” Some people have lost their minds over this. People paid money for it. Some of those people paid money and were left with a dud. You get that Menards made money on this, right? Menards gets free product feedback AND they made money off the product to get it! It wasn’t a special gift that your great grandfather hand made..... These posts are so ridiculous!

Spot on! The drama over this is stunning. And I totally agree with your assessment on this particular low end toy train.

And now sanctimonious sermons on how to spend our money.

Last edited by johnstrains
@Sam Jumper posted:

Wow! You guys are all over the place over this dumb thing. Suddenly there’s generations of sentimentality over this low quality, entry level toy train that 200 people bought???? It’s a family heirloom from Menards! This wasn’t a true beta test. Menards SOLD this. It wasn’t “offered” to only the forum. It wasn’t given. “In the spirit of.....” Some people have lost their minds over this. People paid money for it. Some of those people paid money and were left with a dud. You get that Menards made money on this, right? Menards gets free product feedback AND they made money off the product to get it! It wasn’t a special gift that your great grandfather hand made..... These posts are so ridiculous!

Yup. If the $350 asking price on eBay is too much for you don't but it. Someone else will. Let them.

At the $350 eBay asking price you can get a nice Postwar/MPC/LTI F3 or Williams F3, and truth be told those are better products. It won't have that new car smell or remote though, but you may be happier in the long run.

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