Missed this. But there's clearly a market for toy scale engines at good prices that negotiate small radius (like O31) curves. I hope Menard's offers a Pennsy and some O31 passenger cars someday. I'd be all over that! Bring on the silhouettes! :-)
How did you get it so fast??
I think Menard's is doing a great thing here. It further goes to show that people on OGR often make bold claims about things they have no knowledge or insight to base this on. Like all the many predictions and declarations so many times before this proves that only those who know actually know and everything else is as valuable as asking the magic 8 ball for answers.
Good job Mark!
@Rusty Traque posted:As I mentioned above, the loco is more or less an FP7 and not an F3. FP7's were 4 feet longer than F3/7/9's. It would be interesting if one of the 200 has a GDD FP7 to compare length only to.
While the next photo is of S Scale models, it illustrates the difference in length between an F3 and FP7.
Otherwise, the devil is in the details, but given the price point for this product I'm not going to drill down into them. I'm taking it for what it is: a reasonably priced, attractive, entry level O gauge locomotive.
Rusty
I have several Sunset FP7s in 2R. Knowing that this locomotive is closer in scale to an FP7 makes it a prime candidate for a makeover even if I plan on keeping the Menards "pre-production" version as-is for just having fun with at local events when I operate with an existing "homeless" ATSF F3B I already have. I'll take a side by side photo when mine arrives over the weekend. I could see repainting production versions for the FP7s on the Verde Valley Railroad.
I think what we are witnessing with this Menards F unit is a benchmark for the O gauge community. This is a loco that is affordable for the first time toy train operator or the young family that wants to start a layout without spending a small fortune. Combined with Menards rolling stock and track , the entry level train set is now possible. As far as lack of detail and such, lets not overthink it, that just adds to the price and there are plenty of alternatives out there. I model O scale two rail and would be considered "a rivets counter rivet counter" oh the horror! But any new affordable loco to the O gauge world is a mighty good thing for all. Oh, and for you first 200 buyers out there, run em till the wheels fall off and give Menards feedback. You are the test market so don't leave them on a shelf unboxed. Doug
Here’s a video I found on youtube (not mine): https://youtu.be/0BHI3BUrjp8
@pc cr ns yard rat posted:"But any new affordable loco to the O gauge world is a mighty good thing for all. Oh, and for you first 200 buyers out there, run em till the wheels fall off and give Menards feedback. You are the test market so don't leave them on a shelf unboxed. Doug"
I think this is an amazing way to both create interest and get feedback. Menards has surprised everyone. Even better would be to see them passed around! ;-)
It seemed that one of MTH's biggest beta tester issues was the same folks tested everything and some things improved 2 steps forward while others were 1 step back with the software updates.
Remote update - I fixed it, multimeter to the rescue. I was testing the leads off the back after having it open and I was getting no volts. After that it had to be the contact plates and sure enough they were set a hair off so the positive sides of the batteries weren't touching, but with the naked eye it's difficult to see this. I took a flat heat screwdriver and bent them slightly inward.
Works fine now.
Something to add the list @Menards, I will email Ray as well.
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Just saw the YouTube video- looks like Menards has a winner here!! JohnA
@BNSF-Matt posted:Remote update - I fixed it, multimeter to the rescue. I was testing the leads off the back after having it open and I was getting no volts.I took a flat heat screwdriver and bent them slightly inward.
Works fine now.
How about an updated video of operation on your layout?
That youtube video link above is tough to watch with the engine only being on 2 feet of track and spinning the throttle 360 degrees etc.
@RickO posted:How about an updated video of operation on your layout?
That youtube video link above is tough to watch with the engine only being on 2 feet of track and spinning the throttle 360 degrees etc.
Started working on that now Rick. I plan on doing a feature overview and then pull some MTH 18" SF cars and then some Lionel Heavyweights too. See how our Chief holds up.
@BNSF-Matt posted:18 volts from my Z4000. It's the remote that's the problem, the power indicator on the remote doesn't even light up. I opened the remote, solder joints look fine, no bad wires that I could see. Main board looks fine, no burn spots or damage. I think I just have a bad remote.
Try reversing the batteries
I would bet a simply speaker upgrade and baffle would improve on the sound a lot. I think it's a nice engine and agree the video left a lot to be desired. I would like to know if these remotes are linked to the individual locomotive and what frequency is being used? Hopefully this is the case so multiple can be operated at the same time.
@biscuitag97 posted:Here’s a video I found on youtube (not mine): https://youtu.be/0BHI3BUrjp8
I would suggest not sugar coating opinions - too much. Regarding the vid, and again, Mark is asking for feedback. I thought the packaging was ok. However, if it's going to cause paint finish issues then packaging definitely needs to be looked into. I don't care much for the length, but, then, I'm a purist. If it's going to be marketed as an F3/F7 then get it to a little more scale length. The issue with no batteries, almost all electronics manufacturers provide batteries. I realize this is a beta test, but something to keep in mind. The start speed seems too fast. Almost like the old lionel transformers that start at 6 volts (or what ever the voltage is). That worked ok for PW loks, but newer electronic e-unit loks with DC motors, that's a pretty high voltage.
So, yeah, in closing, just a FWIW. I want this to succeed, as I'm sure many of you do, so, we've got to be honest with Mark (and Menards) with our feed back.
Steve
I was not expecting scale detail but I was hoping their engines (as in this and future releases) would be close to scale length. In the video it looks small compared to the 40' boxcar. As others, waiting for some good reviews.
@biscuitag97 posted:Here’s a video I found on youtube (not mine): https://youtu.be/0BHI3BUrjp8
OK, that's disturbing. Hopefully mine doesn't have those problems. It's not just the paint defects and the dent.
John
For those who wished for different control systems from Menards first offering, that's where the aftermarket kit people can step in with modification kits to add track power, TMCC, DCS, Bluetooth, etc. At $150 many people will have no qualms doing add-on modifications to give them exactly what they want - and still end up with a loco costing hundreds of $$$ less than an offering from the big guys.
Pennyslover
This has great potential. I hope the final production models can be run with the Universal Remote.
Found out about this yesterday, and for me it was a very pleasant surprise. My only real gripe about this locomotive are the chrome trucks and couplers, but if that's not gonna be there for the next run, then please disregard my complaint. I also think it would be better to make it where it can run conventionally and not just with the remote. But again, if that's not the case, then never mind. 
Overall, if the quality is good, and it can run well without needing to be constantly repaired, this may be the best bang-for-your-buck in the modern O scale market period. This could not only be a better value than LionChief offerings, but possibly even Williams locomotives too. And I say this even though I am a fairly big Lionel fan.
Keep in mind if you don’t like the remote etc, a $5.00 rectifier will turn it into a nice dual motored loco.
Steve
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:Keep in mind if you don’t like the remote etc, a $5.00 rectifier will turn it into a nice dual motored loco.
Steve
Well said!
it's there first try at a locomotive and hopefully there won't be to many like the one in the video. But for the price I wouldn't be too upset with the sound and cosmetic defects. I'd be happy if it just ran nice.
Didn't order one this time around. You know what they say never buy a car in it's first year of production, give them a chance to work the bugs out.
Hopefully, there won't be to many problems which might cause Menards to stop producing them.
@Madockawando posted:This has great potential. I hope the final production models can be run with the Universal Remote.
You have to get off your fixation. Lionel’s universal remote is for Lionel products. This isn’t a Lionel product, and the remote won’t recognize it.
@Jim R. posted:You have to get off your fixation. Lionel’s universal remote is for Lionel products. This isn’t a Lionel product, and the remote won’t recognize it.
No , it’s not a “fixation.” It’s a desire for a simple and basic interoperability. And guess what? I am not the only one who would like to see this feature on these locomotives. I’m sure it would be a simple issue to resolve. We have trains from multiple manufacturers that all run on the O gauge track and can couple with each other. Why not have it operate with a UNIVERSAL remote as well? Heck, the Menards’ remote even looks like Lionel’s LC remotes. Do we need yet another O gauge operating system? 🤔
Seems like Menards has positioned itself to become the 3 rail equivalent of what Tyco was in HO: cheap toy trains that run. Not for us scale guys but if you just want a cheap BRAND NEW train to run here's your answer.
@Lou1985 posted:Seems like Menards has positioned itself to become the 3 rail equivalent of what Tyco was in HO: cheap toy trains that run. Not for us scale guys but if you just want a cheap BRAND NEW train to run here's your answer.
I agree. I’m not a scale guy. I do appreciate attention to detail and performance. This locomotive from Menards seems like a good starter locomotive.
@Madockawando posted:No , it’s not a “fixation.” It’s a desire for a simple and basic interoperability. And guess what? I am not the only one who would like to see this feature on these locomotives. I’m sure it would be a simple issue to resolve. We have trains from multiple manufacturers that all run on the O gauge track and can couple with each other. Why not have it operate with a UNIVERSAL remote as well? Heck, the Menards’ remote even looks like Lionel’s LC remotes. Do we need yet another O gauge operating system? 🤔
If O gauge manufacturers wanted a common operating system, they would have worked with the NMRA and DCC manufacturers years ago.
I'd wager Lionel only wants the Universal Remote to be able to operate Lionel and American Flyer LionChief equipped locomotives.
Rusty
@Rusty Traque posted:If O gauge manufacturers wanted a common operating system, they would have worked with the NMRA and DCC manufacturers years ago.
I'd wager Lionel only wants the Universal Remote to be able to operate Lionel and American Flyer LionChief equipped locomotives.
Rusty
Why would you make that assumption? I doubt Lionel sees Menards as a competitor at their level and it would help the sales of both Lionel and Menards if these new locomotives can be run with the Lionel UNIVERSAL LionChief remote.
Once again, your adding cost when you license a command system from another entity.
It amazes me that people want the price AND the goodies.
If your so hooked on Lion Chief, cannibalize the running gear from a cheap LC and put it into a Menards.
The masses who want this type of engine want it kept in the Volkswagon price range , not accessory laden and skyrocketing price.
I personally like it is a basic locomotive. If it works well, our layout wears out this type of locomotive and these would look great pulling our kid fantasy cars on the publicly run tracks.
@Madockawando posted:No , it’s not a “fixation.” It’s a desire for a simple and basic interoperability. And guess what? I am not the only one who would like to see this feature on these locomotives. I’m sure it would be a simple issue to resolve. We have trains from multiple manufacturers that all run on the O gauge track and can couple with each other. Why not have it operate with a UNIVERSAL remote as well? Heck, the Menards’ remote even looks like Lionel’s LC remotes. Do we need yet another O gauge operating system? 🤔
The problem is that the Lionel Universal remote really isn't "Universal". The LC control system is another proprietary system just like TMCC. Legacy, and DCS. Plus, the code for this "universal" proprietary system is not available for anyone to license or openly use in their trains. Just because a manufacture slaps the name "universal" on a controller doesn't mean it will work with everything even if the remote looks similar to something else. The Lionel universal remote is a Lionel Product designed to work with exclusively with other Lionel products. Until they license the LC technology, it will remain closed to everyone else.
We can all dream, I was hoping that the Universal remote would run my $20 train set from Wal-Mart even though the remotes looked similar but no luck on that:
On another note, I didn't notice an FCC ID on the remote or engine. That tidbit of info would really help identifying the wireless technology and frequencies used in this system.
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@H1000 posted:The problem is that the Lionel Universal remote really isn't "Universal". The LC control system is another proprietary system just like TMCC. Legacy, and DCS. Plus, the code for this "universal" proprietary system is not available for anyone to license or openly use in their trains. Just because a manufacture slaps the name "universal" on a controller doesn't mean it will work with everything even if the remote looks similar to something else. The Lionel universal remote is a Lionel Product designed to work with exclusively with other Lionel products. Until they license the LC technology, it will remain closed to everyone else.
We can all dream, I was hoping that the Universal remote would run my $20 train set from Wal-Mart even though the remotes looked similar but no luck on that:
On another note, I didn't notice an FCC ID on the remote or engine. That tidbit of info would really help identifying the wireless technology and frequencies used in this system.
I’m sure an arrangement between Lionel and Menards to their mutual benefit can be worked out. Looking at the size and shape of the Menards remote it looks like they are already 90% there right now. Companies license other companies operating systems, this one looks real easy to do.
Menards is releasing this locomotive in order to ask for feedback back from the train hobby public. My feedback is: make it compatible with the Lionel Orange Universal remote. Who would oppose that?
@Ron_S posted:Once again, your adding cost when you license a command system from another entity.
It amazes me that people want the price AND the goodies.
If your so hooked on Lion Chief, cannibalize the running gear from a cheap LC and put it into a Menards.
The masses who want this type of engine want it kept in the Volkswagon price range , not accessory laden and skyrocketing price.
I personally like it is a basic locomotive. If it works well, our layout wears out this type of locomotive and these would look great pulling our kid fantasy cars on the publicly run tracks.
Who said it would increase costs? You don’t know that. Assuming no price difference, why would you not want it to be compatible with the Lionel Universal remote?
Lionel is not in business to GIVE away technology, they license and expect royalties for their product, look at K-line and their demise.
Menards is making ENTRY level trains for those who want and NEED toys and playthings that are affordable for many families. What your asking is not cheap, and if looking similar is all it takes, then buy a knockoff Rolex and be happy.
Business models are for profit, and what you feel is mutually beneficial for both is not something that could happen with $150 engines. Your not going to be making share holders happy with the proceeds. I applaud Menards for doing what they do, which is make QUALITY toys, trains, buildings and fun stuff most people can afford.
Are you squawking at MTH to bring DCS into a universal remote compatibility?
From what I see of the remote PCB, it is very simple and probably on the concept of RC cars, frequency based and cheap to build, if Menards can make it switchable to run with their remote OR conventionally, THAT would be a Home Run for the market they are targeting.
@Madockawando posted:I’m sure an arrangement between Lionel and Menards to their mutual benefit can be worked out. Looking at the size and shape of the Menards remote it looks like they are already 90% there right now. Companies license other companies operating systems, this one looks real easy to do.
Menards is releasing this locomotive in order to ask for feedback back from the train hobby public. My feedback is: make it compatible with the Lionel Orange Universal remote. Who would oppose that?
That arrangement will cost Menards money and Lionel isn't in the business of letting other manufactures make money from their technology for free. The remotes are similar but the PCB inside is definitely not interchangeable.
I get it, the remotes look similar and that generated giddy hope, but Menards hasn't carried any Lionel product on the shelves or online for a while now. The store manager at our Menards said the most of the Lionel sets sat on shelves Christmas after Christmas until the prices were slashed to a loss. The only thing our Menards carries in trains set anymore are Bachman HO items and their own line of track, rolling stock and buildings.
I suspect that this "SPECIAL TEST RUN PRICE" is just that - a one time price. I'm betting that when the locomotive is finally brought to market it will be closer to $225.00 or maybe even higher. 
At the price point these started at, our club could modify with a simple Bridge Rectifier to be forward only and run the pants off them delighting the public and enjoy doing it.
I am sure those who like to tinker, especially Gunrunner and his peers will be offering goodie boards to enhance them, as well as being able to ERR convert them for those who want true command.
These look to be exciting additions, and like Henry Ford, I want Menards to keep them in a families budget range, so every home can have one.
Your most likely right Wild Mary, but even $225 beats a Williams MSRP, costs will determine everything, from manufacture, shipping, sales volume and enthusiasm for the product.
Menards has proven they can keep the price reasonable for their rolling stock, accessories, building and track. Economy of scale can help but it looks like Menards is easing into the market and lots of factors in the future will let us know if it will be kept on the shelves. They have a good start, I hope it grows and the line of product continues to be popular and wanted.
Interesting, but not totally unexpected, that the $129 price point could convert the steadily increasing interest in direct to loco wireless control systems into a frenzy. If it runs well on battery, could be a game changer.
@Ron_S posted:At the price point these started at, our club could modify with a simple Bridge Rectifier to be forward only and run the pants off them delighting the public and enjoy doing it.
I am sure those who like to tinker, especially Gunrunner and his peers will be offering goodie boards to enhance them, as well as being able to ERR convert them for those who want true command.
These look to be exciting additions, and like Henry Ford, I want Menards to keep them in a families budget range, so every home can have one.
For a club setting the idea of using these as a work horse provided the motors can hold up is a good idea but adding ERR and "the goodies" seems to defeat the purpose of these engines from Menard's.
Also a lot has been made out about how fast these sold out. While a great price and the newness is a factor, I find the O Gauge community is one of those that impulse buys just to say I got one because someone else has it. It will be interesting to see the demand as more releases are made and the regular price is announced. Menard's should do well with the entry level crowd if they can satisfy the road names folks want.
What was the saying? "It's a big tent, room for everyone."
